From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:42 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id IAA10551; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:51:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:51:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340AC770.A878A540@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.071 From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:556] Re: Showtime problem X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Status: U Richard M. Hambly wrote: > A Windows 95 version is coming! > > The ALPHA testing has begun on TAC32. It has some of Showtime's > features, > but many others haven't been written yet. It will eventually have all > of > Showtime's features and more. > > If anyone is desperate enough to want to test this and is willing to > run > the risks, send me an e-mail. > > Rick Hambly > WB2TNL I would not say desperate, but if you need Beta testing for the TAC32, drop me a line. I should have time over the next few weeks to run it through it paces .... G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:44 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA12625; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:36:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:36:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCB6C2.93F8D480.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.073 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:557] TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Gregory, It's not all that hard. You can load the software directly from http://www.cnssys.com/tac32 There is no file downloading to do but you will need to get a plug-in if you use Netscape. If you use Internet Explorer a new ActiveX component will automatically be loaded the first time you point at this page (watch status line at the bottom of the browser). These allow InstallShield to run directly from your Web browser. The software has only been tested with the Motorola receiver. Go to Edit/Serial Port on the menu and select either MotBin or NMEA mode (Motorola works with either one) and the COM port number. Then play with the menu selections and Help. It is very early in the development cycle so there will be frequent updates. Current version is 1.02. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Beat [SMTP:gregory.beat@mediaone.net] Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 9:52 AM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:556] Re: Showtime problem Richard M. Hambly wrote: > A Windows 95 version is coming! > > The ALPHA testing has begun on TAC32. It has some of Showtime's > features, > but many others haven't been written yet. It will eventually have all > of > Showtime's features and more. > > If anyone is desperate enough to want to test this and is willing to > run > the risks, send me an e-mail. > > Rick Hambly > WB2TNL I would not say desperate, but if you need Beta testing for the TAC32, drop me a line. I should have time over the next few weeks to run it through it paces .... G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:47 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id LAA17353; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:23:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:23:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.076 From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:558] TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <01BCB6C2.93F8D480.rick@cnssys.com> Status: U I have to write a version of the TAC program under Unix and need a bit of help to get started. So, has anybody on this list tried to use the TAC from Unix? If it is connected to the com1 port, I guess that I can access it by reading and writing to/from /dev/cua0 but what are the commands and data formats? What do I have to send to it in order to initialize it and get the position back? Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks, Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:50 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA03538; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:39:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:39:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340B07C1.2E881119@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.079 From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:559] TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Status: U Richard, Thank you for the web page reference for TAC32. http://www.cnssys.com/tac32 I adjusted COM port config, restarted program and it took right off (I also use the Motorola OnCore receiver). Nice program. I see that you have graphic support (on right hand side) for newer 12 channel receivers and sidereal time displayed. Possible functions could extend to astronomical -- local sunrise/sunset times, moon phases, tides (for coastal users) but as you said - later versions ...... I will "kick the tires" over the next couple of weeks and compile my observations and suggestions. Tnx. 73 G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:55 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA08050; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:08:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:08:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCB6F0.65E2CD20.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.085 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:560] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Greg, I am using the 12 channel Motorola receiver. Tom had reported a bug when using the MotBin mode on 8 channel Motorola which I fixed but I haven't had anyone to check it out yet. It's never been checked out with any other brand of receiver, either. Due to the contortions needed during setup to deal with bugs in the earlier Motorola receivers there could easily be problems here. I hope to borrow a Garmen some day for development and testing. Lots of work to do yet but I am using this to manage the time on a critical project for the Navy. Much better than buying a $2000 GPS board! Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Beat [SMTP:gregory.beat@mediaone.net] Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 2:39 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:559] TAC32 - Richard, Thank you for the web page reference for TAC32. http://www.cnssys.com/tac32 I adjusted COM port config, restarted program and it took right off (I also use the Motorola OnCore receiver). Nice program. I see that you have graphic support (on right hand side) for newer 12 channel receivers and sidereal time displayed. Possible functions could extend to astronomical -- local sunrise/sunset times, moon phases, tides (for coastal users) but as you said - later versions ...... I will "kick the tires" over the next couple of weeks and compile my observations and suggestions. Tnx. 73 G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:56 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA16829; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:52:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:52:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340B4711.1AD294CF@erols.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.086 From: Allen Schaeffer To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) Status: U Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based TAC. It gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I wonder whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to change using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with you on TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Greg, > > I am using the 12 channel Motorola receiver. Tom had reported a bug when > using the MotBin mode on 8 channel Motorola which I fixed but I haven't had > anyone to check it out yet. > > It's never been checked out with any other brand of receiver, either. Due > to the contortions needed during setup to deal with bugs in the earlier > Motorola receivers there could easily be problems here. I hope to borrow a > Garmen some day for development and testing. > > Lots of work to do yet but I am using this to manage the time on a critical > project for the Navy. Much better than buying a $2000 GPS board! > > Rick > WB2TNL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregory Beat [SMTP:gregory.beat@mediaone.net] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 2:39 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:559] TAC32 - > > Richard, > > Thank you for the web page reference for TAC32. > http://www.cnssys.com/tac32 > > I adjusted COM port config, restarted program and it took > right off (I also use the Motorola OnCore receiver). > > Nice program. I see that you have graphic support (on right > hand side) for newer 12 channel receivers and sidereal time displayed. > > Possible functions could extend to astronomical -- > local sunrise/sunset times, moon phases, tides (for coastal users) > but as you said - later versions ...... > > I will "kick the tires" over the next couple of weeks and compile > my observations and suggestions. > > Tnx. 73 > > G. Beat > W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:57 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA17479; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:05:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:05:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCB709.BE75A160.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.087 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:562] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Allen, Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There are a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support ASAP. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:53 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based TAC. It gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I wonder whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to change using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with you on TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:07:58 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA18144; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:18:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:18:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709012314.XAA12157@hydrogen> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.088 From: mdf@angoss.com (Matthew Francey) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:563] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Status: U >I have to write a version of the TAC program under Unix and need a >bit of help to get started. So, has anybody on this list tried to >use the TAC from Unix? Yeah. I have an **extremely primitive** version of "showtime" running on my Linux machine. It clears the screen, sends a few commands down, and then starts displaying the date/time, ticking up every second. Its almost a religious experience watching my local time-ticks match WWV exactly. Very spooky. :-) >If it is connected to the com1 port, I guess that I can access it by >reading and writing to/from /dev/cua0 but what are the commands and data >formats? What do I have to send to it in order to initialize it and >get the position back? How you get data out of the receiver is in your receiver's user manual. I use the Oncore receiver, and deal with it directly in the Motorola binary format [NMEA is a bit of a nuisance for me]. How you get access to the 1PPS though is system specific. As it happens, Linux has a convenient ioctl() which will put the process into a wait until the CD line is asserted. Ie, on the rising edge of the 1PPS. My "showtime" pulls data from the receiver, tweaks it for the next 1PPS, updates the a display buffer in memory, waits for the 1PPS, then flushes the updates to the screen, and repeats. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:00 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA18230; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:25:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:25:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340B4D5A.B52833D5@erols.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.089 From: Allen Schaeffer To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) Status: U Richard, I have the manual sent to me with the Garmin 20 from TAPR. Although in the documentation 9600 baud is possible, I think it is functioning at 4800 baud in ShowTime. I would be happy to FAX the manual to you if you would like for me to do so. Under the Edit function in TAC32 I cannot change anything except the com port & data type. It appears that the setting is currently at 9600 baud. Is there a way to change it to 4800? -Allen Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Allen, > > Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics > defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it > fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the > startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There are > a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support ASAP. > > Rick > WB2TNL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:53 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - > > Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based TAC. > It > gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I wonder > whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to > change > using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with > you on > TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:02 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA27853; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:50:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:50:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970901163544.2ae75342@best.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.091 From: "Gordon T. Uber" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:565] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Status: U Garmin GPS-20 Baud rate selection: Field 10 of the $PGRMC message sets the NMEA baud rate: 1 = 1200, 2 = 2400, 3 = 4800, 4 = 9600 >From the Garmin GPS 20 Technical Specification, Rev D Gordon Uber At 18:05 97/09/01 -0500, you wrote: >Allen, > >Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics >defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it >fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the >startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There are >a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support ASAP. > >Rick >WB2TNL -- | XII | Gordon T. Uber, 3790 El Camino Real, Suite 142 | XI | Palo Alto, CA 94306-3314, email: gordon@ubr.com | X \ /| CLOCKS and TIME: http://www.ubr.com/clocks/ | IX \ / | Reynen & Uber WebDesign: http://www.ubr.com/rey&ubr From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:14 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA12747; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 23:11:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 23:11:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709020408.VAA14780@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.104 From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:566] Oncore VP+ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text Status: U I'm trying to communicate with an Oncore VP I just put together. It's supposed to come up on Motorola's binary format. The way I understand it is if I connect at 9600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop bit, no parity and send the string @@Cj) (ID command) that I should get a response. The checksum is for all characters after the "@@" and before the I believe. C xor j = ) I believe. Does that sounds right to people? I'm getting 5.01-5.09 V off the: Motorola Oncore VP Interface Board Kit by McKinney Technology As instructed. I'm getting 5.01-5.09V on the socket on the Oncore Vp on pins 2 and 3 as I expect. I'm getting 10v's on pins 2-3 of the serial interface as expected (i.e. the send/receive pins are connected right). Any other ideas? Or ways to see if the GPS is alive with just an Ohm meter and a known good serial port. (I've been talking to my modem to make sure the cable etc is good.) -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:18 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id AAA00194; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:38:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:38:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709020535.WAA03193@mail.redshift.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.108 From: "Doug McKinney" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:567] Re: Oncore VP+ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Status: U ---------- > From: Bill Broadley > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:566] Oncore VP+ > Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 9:11 PM > > > I'm trying to communicate with an Oncore VP I just put together. > > It's supposed to come up on Motorola's binary format. The way I understand > it is if I connect at 9600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop bit, no parity and send > the string @@Cj) (ID command) that I should get a response. > > The checksum is for all characters after the "@@" and before the > I believe. > > C xor j = ) I believe. > > Does that sounds right to people? > > I'm getting 5.01-5.09 V off the: > Motorola Oncore VP Interface Board Kit by McKinney Technology > > As instructed. I'm getting 5.01-5.09V on the socket on the Oncore Vp on pins > 2 and 3 as I expect. I'm getting 10v's on pins 2-3 of the serial interface > as expected (i.e. the send/receive pins are connected right). > > Any other ideas? Or ways to see if the GPS is alive with just an Ohm meter > and a known good serial port. (I've been talking to my modem to make > sure the cable etc is good.) > > > -- > Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin > Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok > Bill, you are on an adventure. The VP ONCORE is easy to use with Motorola's PC Controller software and using the ONCORE's user manual. Using the GPS without them will prove difficult. The normal way to obtain them is with the $1200 development kit, and as an OEM, I have used several versions. One way to get the PC Controller software is to download the software for Tom Clark's Total Accurate Clock (TAC). The software for the ONCORE is GPS.BAT and the software under the DIR BIN. The next problem is getting the PC Controller control commands. As you can see, there is a lot of work that need to be done to make this process easy, and maybe someone reading this has a better approach. I am working with Synergy Systems to write and NMEA Tech Note on using the ONCORE in the NMEA mode and I am trying the same thing you are doing, namely sending a command @@Ci* where *= checksum (this command is to set NMEA mode). I am reverse engineering the serial string by sending the PC Controller commands to another PC using ProComm and a null modem. This way I get the Checksum that the PC Controller sends and the value you are sending is correct @@Cj* is HEX 40 40 43 6A 29 0D 0A where the checksum 29h= ) ASCII. Now, I have been working today only on trying to get my ONCORE to respond with ProComm and not yet successful. I'll let you know when I am. Another point is that the ONCORE has factory defaults set and one of them is the unit being in IDLE MODE (not navigating, which you may be in). This means you need to command it to FIX MODE which is @@Arff*. Well until I can control the GPS with ProComm, I can't say what you really need to command to the GPS. Point is, I have the PC Controller software and know how to make the GPS work and I know how to make commands work using embedded computers like ONSET TattleTail computers. I have not had a requirement to use the ONCORE as naked as you and many other users are doing. My project with Synergy Systems may find away to solve these problems that the rest of you guys are having with the ONCORE. Well, back to ProComm. 73's Doug (408)663-4999 From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:23 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id BAA06551; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:24:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:24:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.111 From: Dave Martindale To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:568] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970901163544.2ae75342@best.com> Status: U >Garmin GPS-20 Baud rate selection: > >Field 10 of the $PGRMC message sets the NMEA baud rate: >1 = 1200, 2 = 2400, 3 = 4800, 4 = 9600 > >>From the Garmin GPS 20 Technical Specification, Rev D I think that's true if you've got one of the newer GPS 20SL boards, where the baud rate is stored in non-voltatile memory of some sort. For the older GPS 20 boards (note the lack of SL), the baud rate is determined by the state of the two serial input pins at power up. The default is 4800 with those pins left floating or at "idle" RS-232 voltages. To get anything else, you need to add some circuitry that pulls one or both of the pins high during power up Dave From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:24 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id BAA07326; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:37:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:37:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709020634.XAA16256@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.112 From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:569] Re: Oncore VP+ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text In-Reply-To: <199709020535.WAA03193@mail.redshift.com> from "Doug McKinney" at Sep 2, 97 00:38:50 am Status: U Okay here's some little snipped I wrote to help, if anyone objects to tiny source code snippets posted here please let me know. /* MotOut.c Written by bill@webannex.com 9/1/97 prints the command line argument as legal Motorolla binary command in the form @@Command. Meant to be used as ./motout Cj > /dev/serial */ #include main(int argc, char **argv) { int cr,lf,len,i,checksum; len=strlen(argv[1]); checksum=0; for (i=0;i main () { char c; int d,ret; while (1) { ret=scanf ("%c", &c); d=(int)c; if (ret>0) { printf ("ret=%d hex= %02x decimal=%02d asc=%c\n", ret,d,d,d); } } } I've yet to get ANYTHING from the gps though 8-( > Bill, you are on an adventure. The VP ONCORE is easy to use with Looks like it, I didn't think it would be that hard, I have documentation for the motorolla binary format, figured it would be easy to get the GPS to say something. I'm not wondering if the gps will do anything before I run the GPS disk that came with it. Unfortunately I don't have dos. > Motorola's PC Controller software and using the ONCORE's user manual. > Using the GPS without them will prove difficult. The normal way to obtain > them is with the $1200 development kit, and as an OEM, I have used several Youch. > versions. One way to get the PC Controller software is to download the > software for Tom Clark's Total Accurate Clock (TAC). The software for the > ONCORE is GPS.BAT and the software under the DIR BIN. The next problem is > getting the PC Controller control commands. As you can see, there is a lot > of work that need to be done to make this process easy, and maybe someone > reading this has a better approach. I am working with Synergy Systems to > write and NMEA Tech Note on using the ONCORE in the NMEA mode and I am > trying the same thing you are doing, namely sending a command @@Ci* > where *= checksum (this command is to set NMEA mode). > I am reverse engineering the serial string by sending the PC Controller > commands to another PC using ProComm and a null modem. This way I get the > Checksum that the PC Controller sends and the value you are sending is > correct @@Cj* is HEX 40 40 43 6A 29 0D 0A where the checksum 29h= ) > ASCII. Yeah I got the checksum figured out, see code above. > Now, I have been working today only on trying to get my ONCORE to respond > with ProComm and not yet successful. I'll let you know when I am. Please do, once I get some kinda of response I'm relatively confident I can write a decent driver for it. Plan to get position data out, as well as time data to run a stratum-1. > Another point is that the ONCORE has factory defaults set and one of them > is the unit being in IDLE MODE (not navigating, which you may be in). This > means you need to command it to FIX MODE which is @@Arff*. Well I'll try this... sigh nothing. > until I can control the GPS with ProComm, I can't say what you really need > to command to the GPS. Point is, I have the PC Controller software and > know how to make the GPS work and I know how to make commands work using > embedded computers like ONSET TattleTail computers. I have not had a > requirement to use the ONCORE as naked as you and many other users are > doing. My project with Synergy Systems may find away to solve these > problems that the rest of you guys are having with the ONCORE. > Well, back to ProComm. 73's Doug (408)663-4999 I'll keep ya posted, I'll keep sending commands to it blind... I'll dig around to see if I can find someone with a dos box to let me play... I just hope the damn thing's alive, was kinda shocked to find the board shipped in a simple envelope. Also quite surprised to not get a full manual with it. At least the motorolla binary commands are covered. No idea if the oncore VP is supposed to be functional without the dos setup. It would have been nice to know ahead of time that dos was required (if indeed it is). -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:25 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id CAA08505; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:00:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:00:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709020659.XAA07451@mail.redshift.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.113 From: "Doug McKinney" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:570] Re: Oncore VP+ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Status: U ---------- > From: Bill Broadley > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:566] Oncore VP+ > Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 9:11 PM > > > I'm trying to communicate with an Oncore VP I just put together. > > It's supposed to come up on Motorola's binary format. The way I understand > it is if I connect at 9600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop bit, no parity and send > the string @@Cj) (ID command) that I should get a response. > > The checksum is for all characters after the "@@" and before the > I believe. > > C xor j = ) I believe. > > Does that sounds right to people? > > I'm getting 5.01-5.09 V off the: > Motorola Oncore VP Interface Board Kit by McKinney Technology > > As instructed. I'm getting 5.01-5.09V on the socket on the Oncore Vp on pins > 2 and 3 as I expect. I'm getting 10v's on pins 2-3 of the serial interface > as expected (i.e. the send/receive pins are connected right). > > Any other ideas? Or ways to see if the GPS is alive with just an Ohm meter > and a known good serial port. (I've been talking to my modem to make > sure the cable etc is good.) > > > -- > Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin > Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok > Good news, I found out how to communicate using ProComm and can control in Motorola Proprietary Binary format and NMEA format. Iam doing more testing, but for your case use ProComm in chat mode and type (with instructions in {}) at 9600 8N1 type @@Cj{Alt and with numlock on 41}{enter}. The key is using the Alt and NumLock number pad. The NumLock pad enteries are ASCII decimals of the Hex value i.e. the hex 29 for your checksum is ASCII 41. Going to bed now and will continue more testing tomorrow From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:30 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id GAA17266; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:02:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCB76D.51FBB560.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.118 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:571] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Allen, TAC32 is setting itself to 9600 because it can't figure out what kind if receiver it is so it is leaving the port in Motorola Binary configuration. I have a good idea of what to do to get the Garmin recognized so I'll get on it ASAP. The current V1.02 is broken anyway. It is setting the system clock wrong by up to one second due to a line of test code I forgot to remove. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 7:26 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - Richard, I have the manual sent to me with the Garmin 20 from TAPR. Although in the documentation 9600 baud is possible, I think it is functioning at 4800 baud in ShowTime. I would be happy to FAX the manual to you if you would like for me to do so. Under the Edit function in TAC32 I cannot change anything except the com port & data type. It appears that the setting is currently at 9600 baud. Is there a way to change it to 4800? -Allen Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Allen, > > Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics > defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it > fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the > startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There are > a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support ASAP. > > Rick > WB2TNL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:53 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - > > Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based TAC. > It > gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I wonder > whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to > change > using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with > you on > TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:30 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id HAA28118; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:13:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:13:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.119 From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:572] Re: Oncore VP+ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <199709020634.XAA16256@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Status: U On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Bill Broadley wrote: > > Okay here's some little snipped I wrote to help, if anyone objects to > tiny source code snippets posted here please let me know. Well, I just tried dumpchar.c and it doesn't seem to work. It just sits there waiting and waiting.... When I remove the "if(ret>0)", I get lines and lines of "ret=-1 hex=...", e.g. no characters read. This happens on both BSDI and Linux machines. This is not a problem with the TAC. Showtime works fine and when I connect to the unit with kermit, I get something back. (BTW, Bill, this is something you might want to try: kermit -l /dev/serial kermit>connect returns a string every second. The string is unreadable though as Kermit interprets it as readable ASCII, but at least you see if your unit is sending something). I'm now going to look into the kermit source to see what kermit does different from a simple "cat /dev/serial". Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:35 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA04397; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:37:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:37:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCB78B.78E2D500.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.122 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:573] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Allen, The clock error has been fixed. If you want your clock set correctly I recommend you re-install using the same process you used before (via http://www.cnssys.com/tac32). No need to uninstall first. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Richard M. Hambly [SMTP:rick@cnssys.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 6:56 AM To: 'tacgps@tapr.org' Subject: RE: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - Allen, TAC32 is setting itself to 9600 because it can't figure out what kind if receiver it is so it is leaving the port in Motorola Binary configuration. I have a good idea of what to do to get the Garmin recognized so I'll get on it ASAP. The current V1.02 is broken anyway. It is setting the system clock wrong by up to one second due to a line of test code I forgot to remove. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 7:26 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - Richard, I have the manual sent to me with the Garmin 20 from TAPR. Although in the documentation 9600 baud is possible, I think it is functioning at 4800 baud in ShowTime. I would be happy to FAX the manual to you if you would like for me to do so. Under the Edit function in TAC32 I cannot change anything except the com port & data type. It appears that the setting is currently at 9600 baud. Is there a way to change it to 4800? -Allen Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Allen, > > Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics > defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it > fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the > startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There are > a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support ASAP. > > Rick > WB2TNL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:53 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - > > Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based TAC. > It > gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I wonder > whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to > change > using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with > you on > TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:36 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA04806; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:44:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:44:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.123 From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:574] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <199709012314.XAA12157@hydrogen> Status: U On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Matthew Francey wrote: > >I have to write a version of the TAC program under Unix and need a > >bit of help to get started. So, has anybody on this list tried to > >use the TAC from Unix? > > Yeah. I have an **extremely primitive** version of "showtime" running > on my Linux machine. It clears the screen, sends a few commands down, > and then starts displaying the date/time, ticking up every second. Well, yes but how do I get it to talk to me. I started with the obvious piece of code: int main () { int x; char buf[BUFSIZ]; x = open ("/dev/tty00", O_RDONLY, 0); while (1==1) { read (x, buf, BUFSIZ); printf ("Read: %s\n ", buf); } return 0; } This does open the device but I never see anything arrive in buffer. The same happens when I read character by character, or fopen the file, or something like that. I must be doing something stupid here but what? I *know* that something is coming out of my TAC, when I connect to it with Kermit, I see messages arriving every second. I looked at the Kermit source (which is an interesting exercise in itself) but cannot find anything special there when the device is opened. And, yes, I also tried to run this as root, in order to exclude problems with priviledges. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:42 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id LAA11956; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.127 From: Dave Martindale To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:575] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: Status: U >This does open the device but I never see anything arrive in buffer. >The same happens when I read character by character, or fopen the file, >or something like that. > >I must be doing something stupid here but what? Unix serial ports acquire a whole bunch of default characteristics when you first open them. At least some of them are almost certainly wrong for your application. You need to do an ioctl() call to set up the baud rate and other character processing options (flow control, wakeup on every character or end of line, etc). Try doing a "man termio" to see what all the options are. As an example, here is a piece of code used to configure a Unix serial port to talk to a pen plotter. It probably is *not* correct for the TAC, but might get you started: Dave static struct termio term = { ISTRIP | IXON | ICRNL, /* c_iflag */ 0, /* c_oflag */ B9600 | CS8 | CREAD | CLOCAL, /* c_cflag */ ICANON, /* c_lflag */ 0, /* c_line */ { 0 }, /* c_cc */ }; static int hp_init_plot() { if ((dev = open(devname, O_RDONLY, 0)) < 0) { perror(devname); return FALSE; } (void) ioctl(dev, TCSETAF, &term); return TRUE; } From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:08:52 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA00341; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:25:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:25:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35952@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.138 From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:576] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio In-Reply-To: your message of Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:50:26 -0500 (CDT). Status: U I'm on the far end of a slow telnet connection in Brazuil, so pardon any thyping problems! For the >>GARMIN<< the receiver is assumed to be at 4800 only. For the Motorola, SHOWTIME dynamically changes the connections between 4800 (for the NMEA msgs) and 9600 (for Motorola proprietary binary). SHOWTIME has some limited "smarts" to be able to tell the difference between the two very different breeds of rcvrs, but it is UNCONDITIONALLY switched with the *.gps file parameter APTYPE (1-4 for Moto, 5 for Garmin). This is shown in the sample *.gps fil;es I provided, and is documented in the documentation files (somewhere). Since I am in a remote location, I can't give more details. Normally I could have answered your questions since all the software, docum,ent'n etc are on my laptop. Unfortunately, while checking into a hotel down here, my laptop and digital camera were stolen and I have little hope of getting them back ;<{ I'll be back home in a couple of days when I can answer your questions in more details. For the folks having W95 problems with SHOWTIME, try going to the SYSTEM icon in the CONRTOL PANEL. Go to the COM1 or COM2 port u are using and diable (sorry disable) the 16550 FIFO buffer. This will make the serial port look like a 16450 and MAY solve your problems. 73, Tom From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:09:05 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA13562; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:31:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:31:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <9708028732.AA873250425@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.153 From: "Eric Rosenberg" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:577] 2 GPS-20/GPS-30 Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Status: U I'm purchasing the GPS-30PC in lieu of the GPS-20 for my TAC-2 (I'm still waiting for it, too).. Some questions come to mind: 1. It appears that the Power Trends 5100 is the power supply to get. Which one...vertical, horizontal, with or without tabs? 2. The GPS-20 comes from TAPR with an internal battery. How does one install one in the (now emasculated) GPS-30PC? Are there docs on this? 3. I'll need to put an antenna connector on the unit. Is the MCX the way to go, or is there a better choice? 4. I've heard that there is an add-on kit for a local display option of the TAC. Is this true? Thanks, Eric erosenberg@orbcomm.net From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:09:07 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA21418; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:36:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:36:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340CA25D.2722DB23@erols.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.155 From: Allen Schaeffer To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:578] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) Status: U Richard, Just downloaded TAC32 again - it still only displays the startup time without further update. It still seems to be setting itself to 9600 baud. I checked the Garmin 20 output with another display program - it is 4800 baud. Allen Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Allen, > > The clock error has been fixed. If you want your clock set correctly I > recommend you re-install using the same process you used before (via > http://www.cnssys.com/tac32). No need to uninstall first. > > Rick > WB2TNL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard M. Hambly [SMTP:rick@cnssys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 6:56 AM > To: 'tacgps@tapr.org' > Subject: RE: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - > > Allen, > > TAC32 is setting itself to 9600 because it can't figure out what kind if > receiver it is so it is leaving the port in Motorola Binary configuration. > I have a good idea of what to do to get the Garmin recognized so I'll get > on it ASAP. > > The current V1.02 is broken anyway. It is setting the system clock wrong > by up to one second due to a line of test code I forgot to remove. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 7:26 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - > > Richard, > > I have the manual sent to me with the Garmin 20 from TAPR. Although in the > documentation 9600 baud is possible, I think it is functioning at 4800 baud > in > ShowTime. I would be happy to FAX the manual to you if you would like for > me > to do so. Under the Edit function in TAC32 I cannot change anything except > the > com port & data type. It appears that the setting is currently at 9600 > baud. > Is there a way to change it to 4800? > > -Allen > > Richard M. Hambly wrote: > > > Allen, > > > > Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics > > defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it > > fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the > > startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There > are > > a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support > ASAP. > > > > Rick > > WB2TNL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:53 PM > > To: tacgps@tapr.org > > Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - > > > > Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based > TAC. > > It > > gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I > wonder > > whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to > > change > > using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with > > you on > > TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:09:12 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id TAA26324; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:05:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:05:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.157 From: Dave Martindale To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:579] Re: 2 GPS-20/GPS-30 Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <9708028732.AA873250425@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Status: U >2. The GPS-20 comes from TAPR with an internal battery. How does one >install one in the (now emasculated) GPS-30PC? Are there docs on this? If the 30 is the same board as the 20, there is a standby power pin on the board connector. It's pin 7, and needs to be 4 to 33 VDC at 50 uA. You might also be able to find the appropriate lithium battery and solder it directly to the board, but it's probably easier to use the connector. >3. I'll need to put an antenna connector on the unit. Is the MCX the way >to go, or is there a better choice? The 20 comes with a surface-mount MCX female, so you know that that will fit. But if you're going to mount the thing inside a box anyway, and use another antenna connector on the box (probably a BNC), then it would probably work to just solder a piece of thin 50-ohm coax like RG-174 directly to the GPS board and to the BNC jack mounted on the box. Yes, this is likely to produce more of an impedance discontinuity than an MCX male and female properly installed on the cable and GPS board. But I'll bet it works pretty well anyway. Dave Note: I have a 20, not a 30, so I'm guessing at some of these answers. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:09:13 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id TAA26347; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:06:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:06:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCB7DB.187876C0.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.158 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:580] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Allen, Sorry, that message was meant for Greg Beat - he has a Motorola receiver. Sorry to waste your time on that one. I have a good handle on the Garmin issue, I just need a little time to code the solution. It is now the top priority. I will be changing the serial port dialog box to allow for more selections such as "Search for a GPS receiver" and fixed modes for "Motorola Binary", Motorola NMEA" and "Garmin NMEA". I will also allow setting the baud rate so we can operate these units at their fastest allowable rates which will make the display more responsive. All selections in TAC32 are saved between sessions (even the placement on the screen). This will speed up the initialization of the program and make it more reliable. Just as it was difficult to design the hardware to accommodate all the receivers, so it is difficult to design the software to do the same. For example, it is not enough to say you want the Garmin to work at 9600 baud - the software has to magically discover what baud rate the receiver is set to and then issue the change baud rate command to the receiver before changing the computer's baud rate. Not really all that hard to do, just takes time. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 7:37 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:578] RE: TAC32 - Richard, Just downloaded TAC32 again - it still only displays the startup time without further update. It still seems to be setting itself to 9600 baud. I checked the Garmin 20 output with another display program - it is 4800 baud. Allen Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Allen, > > The clock error has been fixed. If you want your clock set correctly I > recommend you re-install using the same process you used before (via > http://www.cnssys.com/tac32). No need to uninstall first. > > Rick > WB2TNL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard M. Hambly [SMTP:rick@cnssys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 6:56 AM > To: 'tacgps@tapr.org' > Subject: RE: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - > > Allen, > > TAC32 is setting itself to 9600 because it can't figure out what kind if > receiver it is so it is leaving the port in Motorola Binary configuration. > I have a good idea of what to do to get the Garmin recognized so I'll get > on it ASAP. > > The current V1.02 is broken anyway. It is setting the system clock wrong > by up to one second due to a line of test code I forgot to remove. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 7:26 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:564] RE: TAC32 - > > Richard, > > I have the manual sent to me with the Garmin 20 from TAPR. Although in the > documentation 9600 baud is possible, I think it is functioning at 4800 baud > in > ShowTime. I would be happy to FAX the manual to you if you would like for > me > to do so. Under the Edit function in TAC32 I cannot change anything except > the > com port & data type. It appears that the setting is currently at 9600 > baud. > Is there a way to change it to 4800? > > -Allen > > Richard M. Hambly wrote: > > > Allen, > > > > Yes, the data port setup parameters are fixed to the characteristics > > defined by the Motorola boards. You say the Garmin is 9600 baud? Is it > > fixed at this rate? If so I could add a NEMA style check for this in the > > startup. Is it possible to send me a copy of the Garmin manual? There > are > > a lot of users out there with Garmin so I want to add Garmin support > ASAP. > > > > Rick > > WB2TNL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:53 PM > > To: tacgps@tapr.org > > Subject: [TACGPS:561] RE: TAC32 - > > > > Just wanted to let you know I have tried TAC32 with my Garmin 20 based > TAC. > > It > > gives an initial time on startup, but does not update thereafter. I > wonder > > whether this is due to a 9600 baud rate which I have not been able to > > change > > using the edit com port function. I would be interested in working with > > you on > > TAC32 with my Garmin if I can be of help. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:09:15 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA01565; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:59:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:59:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340CC1E0.B27DFF70@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.160 From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:581] RE: TAC32 - Further revisions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Status: U Richard M. Hambly wrote: > I have a good handle on the Garmin issue, I just need a little time to > code > the solution. It is now the top priority. I will be changing the > serial > port dialog box to allow for more selections such as "Search for a GPS > > receiver" and fixed modes for "Motorola Binary", Motorola NMEA" and > "Garmin > NMEA". I did install your new version. First, always remember to close the TAC-32 programthat is running when you perform Install fromthe Web. Nice error message, but you do have to start over again. When I started program, the clock appears but not SNR graph or satellite IDs. I checks the "Set the serial port" and noted the program did not default to either NMEA or Motorola - the selection was "null" or blank. Closed program and restarted and running as before (although I did not pay attention to the second timing differential in the ewarlier version) > I will also allow setting the baud rate so we can operate these > units at their fastest allowable rates which will make the display > more > responsive. All selections in TAC32 are saved between sessions (even > the > placement on the screen). This will speed up the initialization of the > > program and make it more reliable. Great idea ..... > Just as it was difficult to design the hardware to accommodate all the > > receivers, so it is difficult to design the software to do the same. > For > example, it is not enough to say you want the Garmin to work at 9600 > baud - > the software has to magically discover what baud rate the receiver is > set > to and then issue the change baud rate command to the receiver before > changing the computer's baud rate. Not really all that hard to do, > just > takes time. As an FYI, I am running the Oncore VP (8 channel) receiverSoftware version & Rev # 8 Software date: August 6, 1996 Option IB Nice to see the tacgps group so busy ...... G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:09:16 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA04533; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340CCF76.C9897296@amsat.org> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.161 From: "Ronald G. Parsons" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:582] Re: 2 GPS-20/GPS-30 Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Status: U Eric Rosenberg wrote: .. > > 2. The GPS-20 comes from TAPR with an internal battery. How does one > install one in the (now emasculated) GPS-30PC? Are there docs on this? .. Did you find a good way to emasculate the GPS-30PC? Did you find a bad way? -- Ron W5RKN also: rparsons@bga.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:10:11 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id KAA03885; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:33:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:33:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.204 From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:583] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Status: U On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Dave Martindale wrote: > >This does open the device but I never see anything arrive in buffer. > >The same happens when I read character by character, or fopen the file, > >or something like that. > > > >I must be doing something stupid here but what? > > Unix serial ports acquire a whole bunch of default characteristics when > you first open them. At least some of them are almost certainly wrong > for your application. You need to do an ioctl() call to set up > the baud rate and other character processing options (flow control, > wakeup on every character or end of line, etc). This helped, sort-of. When I do a tcsetattr, I can adjust the parameters and read the new ones back with tcgetattr.... BUT > Try doing a "man termio" to see what all the options are. As an example, > here is a piece of code used to configure a Unix serial port to talk > to a pen plotter. It probably is *not* correct for the TAC, but might > get you started: which ones do I need. man termio gives me tons of options. So far, I've been using: c_iflag = IGNPAR | ICRNL; c_oflag = 0 c_cflag = CS8 | CREAD c_lflag = ICANON When I then send my TAC a "receiver id string" (@@Cj(COPY". So I guess that I still have a bit set wrong, does anybody know what the correct values are? Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:10:13 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id LAA08100; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:34:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:34:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709031629.KAA07637@ve7tcp.ampr.org> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.206 From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:584] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 Status: U You need to add (at least) CLOCAL, otherwise the open blocks waiting for CD to assert. You'll also have to disable RTS/CTS flow control: c_cflag &= ~(CCTS_OFLOW|CRTS_IFLOW) What you really want to do is put the port into raw mode, otherwise the tty driver can muck things up by interpreting some of the characters, and doing end-of-line canonicalizations. --lyndon From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:10:53 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id AAA15701; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:41:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:41:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.235 From: Dave Martindale To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:585] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: Status: U >which ones do I need. man termio gives me tons of options. So far, >I've been using: > > > c_iflag = IGNPAR | ICRNL; > c_oflag = 0 > c_cflag = CS8 | CREAD > c_lflag = ICANON You probably don't want ICANON - that tells UNIX to treat some characters as input editing (backspace/rubout, backslash, line delete, etc). And somewhere in there you have to tell the device what bit rate you need, so there should be a B4800 or B9600 somewhere. Putting the port into RAW mode, as Lyndon suggests, is one option. The advantage is that you get every character as it arrives without regard to what it is. The downside is that on a reasonably fast machine, your "read" calls will always return just one character, and you'll end up doing one system call per character. It is more efficient to have UNIX collect the characters until it sees the CR/LF that terminates each line of NMEA data, and then pass back the entire line at one time. It *is* possible to get most UNIX terminal drivers to pass back whole lines, while at the same time not doing any other character processing. But I no longer remember exactly the collection of bits to set to get this effect. Whenever I need to do something like this, I just do a "man termio", read the description of each bit, decide whether I need each bit set or clear (or it doesn't matter), set up code to do that, and I'm done. Reading through the descriptions is tedious, but it only needs to be done once. Dave From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:11:09 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id HAA17084; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:40:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:40:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.247 From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:586] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Status: U Thanks to everybody who replied.... > >which ones do I need. man termio gives me tons of options. So far, > >I've been using: > > > > > > c_iflag = IGNPAR | ICRNL; > > c_oflag = 0 > > c_cflag = CS8 | CREAD > > c_lflag = ICANON > > You probably don't want ICANON - that tells UNIX to treat some characters > as input editing (backspace/rubout, backslash, line delete, etc). > And somewhere in there you have to tell the device what bit rate you > need, so there should be a B4800 or B9600 somewhere. I took ICANON out and added a CLOCAL plus a ~(CCTS_OFLOW|CRTS_IFLOW). (as Lyndon suggested). I was using c_ispeed/c_ospeed to set the speed to 9600. Finally, before setting any bits in c_?flag, I set the words to 0, in order to disable all other bits. I can then set and read the config with tcsetattr/tcgetattr. Finally, I set the c_cc[i] bits to 0, except for VMIN (block input until >1 character read). I then send the Motorola the string "@@Cj and start reading from the input, byte by byte. At least I now get something back. The program sees burst of bytes, paused for approximately a second, sees another burst of bytes, pauses and so on. So, it looks as if I now see something related to the output buffer. BUT, if I print the characters that I read, they don't seem to make any sense. I'd expect to see at least two "@@" somewhere but nothing like that. > Whenever I need to do something like this, I just do a "man termio", > read the description of each bit, decide whether I need each bit > set or clear (or it doesn't matter), set up code to do that, and I'm > done. Reading through the descriptions is tedious, but it only needs > to be done once. I did that, and yes, it is tedious but as this IS the first time that I'm using termio, and the man page plus the books that I have are good at explaining what the options do, but not why you need them or not. Henk ps. If anybody has a piece of working code that he/she is willing to share, let me know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:11:17 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id KAA25825; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:14:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:14:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709041513.IAA01785@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.254 From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:587] Oncore VP+Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text Status: U Hello all, Got the Oncore working by using a friends dos box to get it all setup. I'm using the Interface Board Kit by McKinney Technology to connect via a db-9. I'll append the code I used to display the 1 second pulses (sorry it's just motorola binary format raw). Anyone know of some documentation for the format? the stuff I got with TAPR's kit is very lacking. Frustrating to have a reference to a command description, but it wasn't included 8-( Unfortunately I was playing around with ioformat trying to get it into NMEA mode so I can setup a stratum 1 time server. The unfortunate part is somehow I got it into one of the other modes and now it's completely quiet. Anyone know the command to get into NMEA mode? Anyone know the NMEA command to send position every second or similiar? (I might have succeeded in switching to NMEA but now it's not automatically sending updates when I connect at 4800). Anyone know the Loran command to send a position? (I might have suceeded in switching to Loran but now it's not automatically sending updates when I connect at 1200). I'm very encourage though to get a position fix, track satalites etc with the dos software. Now to get similiar for linux. /* Just cats the port the GPS is on, and prints escape codes for the unprintables. Bill Broadley bill@webannex.com 9/4/97 */ #include #include #include #include #define FALSE 0 #define TRUE 1 static struct termio term = { ISTRIP | IXON | ICRNL, /* c_iflag */ 0, /* c_oflag */ B9600 | CS8 | CREAD | CLOCAL, /* c_cflag */ ICANON, /* c_lflag */ 0, /* c_line */ {0}, /* c_cc */ }; main () { int dev, ret, d, line; char c; char *buf; if ((dev = open ("/dev/ttyS0", O_RDONLY, 0)) < 0) { perror ("/dev/ttyS0"); return FALSE; } printf ("dev=%d\n", dev); (void) ioctl (dev, TCSETAF, &term); while (1) { ret = read (dev, &c, 1); d = (int) c; if (ret > 0) { if (d == 10) { line++; } else { if ((d < 32) || (d > 127)) { printf ("\\%02x", d); } else { printf ("%c", c); } } } } return TRUE; } -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:11:53 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA17525; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:18:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:18:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709041802.LAA09195@mail.redshift.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.284 From: "Doug McKinney" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:588] Re: Oncore VP+Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCB920.80524AA0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Status: U ---------- > From: Bill Broadley > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:587] Oncore VP+Unix > Date: Thursday, September 04, 1997 8:14 AM > > > Hello all, > > Got the Oncore working by using a friends dos box to get it all setup. > I'm using the Interface Board Kit by McKinney Technology to connect > via a db-9. > > I'll append the code I used to display the 1 second pulses (sorry it's > just motorola binary format raw). Anyone know of some documentation > for the format? the stuff I got with TAPR's kit is very lacking. Frustrating > to have a reference to a command description, but it wasn't included 8-( ONCORE User's Guide should be available from Synergy System (Art Sepin) for about $50. If he can not sell it to you because of**** then contact me and I can purchase the from Art. I am an OEM with Art. > > Unfortunately I was playing around with ioformat trying to get it > into NMEA mode so I can setup a stratum 1 time server. The unfortunate > part is somehow I got it into one of the other modes and > now it's completely quiet. Anyone know the command to get into NMEA mode? I am working with Art to provide a tech note about this. It is not completed yet, but I'll attach it to this responce > > Anyone know the NMEA command to send position every second or > similiar? (I might have succeeded in switching to NMEA but now > it's not automatically sending updates when I connect at 4800). Once in NMEA at 4800 8N1 use a program like ProComm and use Chat mode and type $PMOTG,GGA,0001 and you will get GPGGA sentecnes every sec. See attachment > > Anyone know the Loran command to send a position? (I might have > suceeded in switching to Loran but now it's not automatically > sending updates when I connect at 1200). Try $PMOTG,FOR,x where x=0 is Binary 9600 8N1; x=1 is NMEA 4800 8N1; 2= LORAN 1200 8N1 > > I'm very encourage though to get a position fix, track satalites > etc with the dos software. Now to get similiar for linux. > > /* Just cats the port the GPS is on, and prints escape codes for > the unprintables. Bill Broadley bill@webannex.com 9/4/97 */ > #include > #include > #include > #include > #define FALSE 0 > #define TRUE 1 > static struct termio term = > { > ISTRIP | IXON | ICRNL, /* c_iflag */ > 0, /* c_oflag */ > B9600 | CS8 | CREAD | CLOCAL, /* c_cflag */ > ICANON, /* c_lflag */ > 0, /* c_line */ > {0}, /* c_cc */ > }; > > main () > { > int dev, ret, d, line; > char c; > char *buf; > if ((dev = open ("/dev/ttyS0", O_RDONLY, 0)) < 0) > { > perror ("/dev/ttyS0"); > return FALSE; > } > printf ("dev=%d\n", dev); > (void) ioctl (dev, TCSETAF, &term); > while (1) > { > ret = read (dev, &c, 1); > d = (int) c; > if (ret > 0) > { > if (d == 10) > { line++; } > else > { > if ((d < 32) || (d > 127)) > { printf ("\\%02x", d); } > else > { printf ("%c", c); } > } > } > } > return TRUE; > } > > > > -- > Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin > Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok > Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="NMEA ops.doc" Content-Description: NMEA ops (WordPad Document) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="NMEA ops.doc" Attachment converted: Power Mac:NMEA ops.doc (WDBN/MSWD) (00024920) From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:12:05 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA19528; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:43:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:43:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709041838.MAA15938@ve7tcp.ampr.org> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.287 From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:589] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Status: U >>>>> "Dave" == Dave Martindale writes: Dave> Putting the port into RAW mode, as Lyndon suggests, is one Dave> option. The advantage is that you get every character as it Dave> arrives without regard to what it is. The downside is that Dave> on a reasonably fast machine, your "read" calls will always Dave> return just one character, and you'll end up doing one Dave> system call per character. It is more efficient to have Dave> UNIX collect the characters until it sees the CR/LF that Dave> terminates each line of NMEA data, and then pass back the Dave> entire line at one time. It *is* possible to get most UNIX Dave> terminal drivers to pass back whole lines, while at the same Dave> time not doing any other character processing. But I no Dave> longer remember exactly the collection of bits to set to get Dave> this effect. Me either (although I know way too much about setsockopt() these days :-) In the Olde Days(tm) we used VMIN in conjunction with raw mode in the tty driver. When VMIN != 0 it told the tty driver to delay returning data for up to VMIN tenths (?) of a second as long as data continued to arrive. Thus if you were getting a burst of input data, the driver would buffer multiple characters and return them in a bunch from the read() call. This mandatory for things like UUCP to work efficiently. In fact, an examination of the tty I/O routines in uucico would be an excellent way to figure out just how to do this. (There are more system dependencies in this area than I care to admit. You're better off grabbing someone elses debugged code. The routines in Taylor UUCP are a good place to work from.) Jeez, it's been a *long* time since I've played with this stuff :-) If you really get stuck, just hang on for a bit. I'm expecting my TAC to ship sometime soon. Once everything is assembled I'll be writing a UNIX interface for BSD that should easily port to Linux. --lyndon From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:12:23 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA25734; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:01:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:01:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709041950.TAA26462@hydrogen> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.305 From: mdf@angoss.com (Matthew Francey) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:590] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Status: U >In the Olde Days(tm) we used VMIN in conjunction with raw mode in the >tty driver. When VMIN != 0 it told the tty driver to delay returning >data for up to VMIN tenths (?) of a second as long as data continued >to arrive. Minor nit: I think that is VTIME. VMIN is the minimum number of bytes to wait for before returning. The Linux manpages go on about this. (Or they should). For the Oncore receiver, you probably want to set VMIN to 0, VTIME to 1 (ie, 1/10th of a second time-out) and then do this: wait for the 1PPS try to read 800 bytes [of course, you will get less] digest the data repeat The above should work [I haven't tried it yet 'cuz I've been DSPing for a while] because the Oncore's sequence of events on the serial line is: 1PPS rise max 50ms delay Hence, the VTIME-out won't be triggered by the first delay, but will be triggered by the last one. All you have to be sure is that you can process all the data returned by the GPS within 100ms. Which ought to be more than enough time for most computers out there re: displaying date/time and other stuff. For Linux, the proper way to wait for the 1PPS is to configure the tty in CLOCAL mode, and then use the TIOCMIWAIT ioctl() to wait for the CD. If there is no manpage help for TIOCMIWAIT, then see the kernel source /usr/src/linux/drivers/char/serial.c. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:12:32 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA03854; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:59:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:59:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <9708048734.AA873421051@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.314 From: "Eric Rosenberg" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:591] Lowe vs. Trimble X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Status: U I'm now looking for an antenna for my (as yet undelivered) TAC-2. Is the Lowe the same antenna as the Trimble (p/n 28367-00) that Paccomm sells? They both look like the unit Panasonic makes for our Orbcomm communicators! Thanks in advance, Eric W3DQ -- erosenberg@orbcomm.net From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:12:40 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA07567; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:54:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:54:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <340F3A30.D79D664D@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.321 From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:592] Re: Lowe vs. Trimble X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Status: U Eric, > I'm now looking for an antenna for my (as yet undelivered) TAC-2. After I played on the bench my "homemade" patch antenna, I calledArt Sepin at Synergy Systems and inquired about various antennas. I will pass along some part numbers, if anyone else is also interested in contacting Synergy [not a endorsement - just information]. I ordered the grey "hockey puck" GPS antenna [Tom Clark's name for it] # ANT62301A2. Do not forget the magnetic mount for the antenna # MNT62314A1, if that is what you want. Both of these cost around $ 65.00 plus shipping. This antenna has a straight-on OCX(MCX) connector, just like the Oncore VP receiver from TAPR. Since I was on the phone, I picked up two six (6) meter RG58 cables from Synergy as well. OSX/OSX (both right angles) # SSCABVP0058N-6 OSX/BNC (right angle OSX, straight on BNC) # SSCABXT0058N-6 It is nice when soemone has the crimp tool for the OSX conenctor to make these up. If you wanted to save money you could order one of the cables with OSX on both ends, cut the cable and apply your own BNC connector. If you do that, remember to measure the length for entering the proper latency value into Tom's SHOWTIME program. I did find Art and the Synergy staff patient and extremely helpful. Hope it is helps in making your decision. Cheers. G. Beat W9GB gregory.beat@mediaone.net From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:12:50 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA02594; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:43:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:43:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970904202755.00784f44@pop.azstarnet.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.329 From: Lyle Johnson To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:593] Re: Oncore VP+Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <199709041513.IAA01785@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Status: U At 10:14 AM 9/4/97 -0500, Bill Broadley wrote: > >Hello all, > >Got the Oncore working by using a friends dos box to get it all setup. >I'm using the Interface Board Kit by McKinney Technology to connect >via a db-9. > >I'll append the code I used to display the 1 second pulses (sorry it's >just motorola binary format raw). Anyone know of some documentation >for the format? the stuff I got with TAPR's kit is very lacking. Frustrating >to have a reference to a command description, but it wasn't included 8-( > >Unfortunately I was playing around with ioformat trying to get it >into NMEA mode so I can setup a stratum 1 time server. The unfortunate >part is somehow I got it into one of the other modes and >now it's completely quiet. Anyone know the command to get into NMEA mode? >From Motorola Binary format: @@CimX m=0=switch to Motorola Binary Format m=1=switch to NMEA-0183 format m=2=switch to LORAN format X=checksum message length 8 bytes >Anyone know the NMEA command to send position every second or >similiar? (I might have succeeded in switching to NMEA but now >it's not automatically sending updates when I connect at 4800). $PMOTG,GGA,yyyyCC yyyy=update rate (0..9999)in seconds CC=optional checksum >Anyone know the Loran command to send a position? (I might have >suceeded in switching to Loran but now it's not automatically >sending updates when I connect at 1200). Z This is a poll and you get one posiiton output Tssss ssss is (0..9999) seconds >I'm very encourage though to get a position fix, track satalites >etc with the dos software. Now to get similiar for linux. > From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:13:58 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id HAA18921; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:04:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:04:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709051201.FAA06173@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.354 From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:594] Oncore+unix+ntp stratum-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text Status: U Hello all, Thanks for all the help. In particular Doug McKinney for many emails, documentation, commands and other stuff. And numerous others who suggested commands, c code, antenae vendors, url's and other stuff. I ordered the $50 Oncore guide from Synergy systems. Using Linux, Lowe Antenae, Oncore VP, McKinney serial board, and xntpd I now have a stratum-1 time server running off the oncore in NMEA mode. I may tackle motorola's binary mode after I get the manual. I plan to record the GPS error for post processing recorded data to remove error, display various info about satalites, and do play with position averaging once I get more documentation. The current plan is to write a program to collect into from the gps, and then feed only whats needed to the xntpd daemon. Then CGI/Java programs to play with the rest of the available data. I've also recall a comment about a nice system call to use with linux to detect the PPS signal. It's a shame to hide 50-100 ns latency behind one second pulses over a serial line. I'm not sure my Oncore has one actually. Anyone else with a tapr Oncore VP know if the "optional" PPS signal is included? I've only written small code snippets so far, a dump everything the gps sends script, and a few tiny scripts to append , one to do checksums, and one to dump the binary format. They made it much easier to communicate with the GPS. Oh the NMEA command to get the Oncore VP from motorola binary into the appropiate NMEA mode: @@Ci\01+ \01 means a character with value 1. Once in NMEA mode you need to do a: $PMOTG,RMC,0001 Thats it now just fire up xntpd with the NMEA driver, make a link to the write device and it works... [bill@avalon bill]$ ntptrace localhost localhost: stratum 1, offset 0.000045, synch distance 0.01416, refid 'GPS' xntpdc> peers remote local st poll reach delay offset disp ======================================================================= =lobata.math.ucd 168.150.200.1 2 1024 377 0.04314 0.190771 0.00629 *GPS_NMEA(0) 127.0.0.1 0 64 377 0.00000 -0.002872 0.01770 =chrysolepis.mat 168.150.200.1 3 1024 377 0.04181 0.188916 0.00992 -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:14:06 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id IAA21230; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:14:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:14:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.356 From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:595] Re: TAC and Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <199709041950.TAA26462@hydrogen> Status: U On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Matthew Francey wrote: > >In the Olde Days(tm) we used VMIN in conjunction with raw mode in the > >tty driver. When VMIN != 0 it told the tty driver to delay returning > >data for up to VMIN tenths (?) of a second as long as data continued > >to arrive. > Minor nit: I think that is VTIME. VMIN is the minimum number of bytes to > wait for before returning. The Linux manpages go on about this. (Or they > should). I tried playing with those 2, no success. > For Linux, the proper way to wait for the 1PPS is to configure the tty > in CLOCAL mode, and then use the TIOCMIWAIT ioctl() to wait for the CD. > If there is no manpage help for TIOCMIWAIT, then see the kernel source > /usr/src/linux/drivers/char/serial.c. We're in a BSD environment and I couldn't find anything remotely resembling TIOCMIWAIT there. We do have 1 linux box though, man ioctl and man ioctl_list don't mention TIOCMIWAIT. From the kernel source, I figured that I should add a printf ("Calling ioctl\n"); result = ioctl (device, TIOCMIWAIT); printf ("Result %d\n", result); read (device, buffer, 800); It now looks as if there is a pause between the two printf's. BUT the output still doesn't resemble anything that I'd expect. Did I still miss something? BTW. We also have Motorola Oncore Evaluation kit. I connected that one to the port where the TAPR is sitting and ran the program again. It then does produce sensible output. However, this unit doesn't give a 1 pps output to the computer (the CD pin in the connector that goes into the computer isn't even connected to anything). Also, the unit works fine with the SHOWTIME program. So, I'm now reasonably sure that the 1pps interferes with the program reading the com port. The question remains how do I get around this? Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:14:25 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA20649; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:52:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:52:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBA0B.1955EF00.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.370 From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:596] RE: TAC32 - Further revisions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Status: U Greg, TAC32 Version 1.0.3 (alpha) for Win95/NT is now ready. I have completely rewritten the startup code so the clock should come up reliably now. The set serial port options now include "Search", "Mot Bin", "Mot NMEA", and "Garmin". Your last mode is saved and used again on startup significantly speeding up the startup process. If the receiver is not recognized, the clock fields are blanked out. The Garmin is now supported, at least in part. I don't have access to a Garmin so I hope someone will try it out. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Beat [SMTP:gregory.beat@mediaone.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 9:59 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:581] RE: TAC32 - Further revisions Richard M. Hambly wrote: > I have a good handle on the Garmin issue, I just need a little time to > code > the solution. It is now the top priority. I will be changing the > serial > port dialog box to allow for more selections such as "Search for a GPS > > receiver" and fixed modes for "Motorola Binary", Motorola NMEA" and > "Garmin > NMEA". I did install your new version. First, always remember to close the TAC-32 programthat is running when you perform Install fromthe Web. Nice error message, but you do have to start over again. When I started program, the clock appears but not SNR graph or satellite IDs. I checks the "Set the serial port" and noted the program did not default to either NMEA or Motorola - the selection was "null" or blank. Closed program and restarted and running as before (although I did not pay attention to the second timing differential in the ewarlier version) > I will also allow setting the baud rate so we can operate these > units at their fastest allowable rates which will make the display > more > responsive. All selections in TAC32 are saved between sessions (even > the > placement on the screen). This will speed up the initialization of the > > program and make it more reliable. Great idea ..... > Just as it was difficult to design the hardware to accommodate all the > > receivers, so it is difficult to design the software to do the same. > For > example, it is not enough to say you want the Garmin to work at 9600 > baud - > the software has to magically discover what baud rate the receiver is > set > to and then issue the change baud rate command to the receiver before > changing the computer's baud rate. Not really all that hard to do, > just > takes time. As an FYI, I am running the Oncore VP (8 channel) receiverSoftware version & Rev # 8 Software date: August 6, 1996 Option IB Nice to see the tacgps group so busy ...... G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:14:31 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA27662; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:20:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:20:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3410772E.44CC7136@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.376 From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:597] RE: TAC32 - 1.0.3 (alpha) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Status: U Richard M. Hambly wrote: > TAC32 Version 1.0.3 (alpha) for Win95/NT is now ready. I have > completely > rewritten the startup code so the clock should come up reliably now. > The > set serial port options now include "Search", "Mot Bin", "Mot NMEA", > and > "Garmin". Your last mode is saved and used again on startup > significantly > speeding up the startup process. If the receiver is not recognized, > the > clock fields are blanked out. Well let's see ........ The satellite graph on the right appeared to work corectly throughout this version, except as noted below. Yes, TAC32 did blank the clock fields for my Oncore VP receiver and the main clock in the upper left was "frozen" at the one time (PC or GPS clock?) upon program start up. I highlighted the clock digit field, hit the delete key and received a frozen picture of the other clock and position fields. [always do things you are not suppose to do during an alpha test, sneaky too]. I was able to change the Motorola receiver with the Set Port command and then "view" the raw data from the Oncore. Under NMEA, I had all 12 sat graphs working under Binary I did not seem to be "seeing" the 7th satellite (all zeroes) this later corrected. Parsing issue? When I put it into Search mode .... it seemed to "find" the Motorola Binary mode quickly, but still frozen clock. TAC32 eventaully seemed to decide my receiver was okay and 45 to 60 seconds later after program startup, the clock started running. I will continue to start and restart program over the weekend to try to pin this "cause" down for you. I also had a "148" error the first time that I tried to install the program with Install Across the Web and the setup/install speed appeared to be much slower this time around (could be net congestion on either of our ends) > The Garmin is now supported, at least in part. I don't have access to > a > Garmin so I hope someone will try it out. I am sure that someone with a Garmin GPS-20 will try TAC32 andrespond to the discussion group. Cheers. G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Wed Aug 27 09:15:53 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA02534; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:05:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:05:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34108F68.6B8EE71F@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 873528500.382 From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:598] Oncore Evaluation Kit - 1 pps ? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Status: U Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) wrote: [snip] > BTW. We also have Motorola Oncore Evaluation kit. I connected that > one to the port where the TAPR is sitting and ran the program > again. It then does produce sensible output. However, this unit > doesn't give a 1 pps output to the computer (the CD pin in the > connector > that goes into the computer isn't even connected to anything). Also, > the unit works fine with the SHOWTIME program. So, > I'm now reasonably sure that the 1pps interferes with the program > reading the com port. The question remains how do I get around this? If you indeed have the Motorola Oncore Evaluation kit, you should also have thePower/Data cable that came with the kit. The 1 PPS signal should be found on the separate Yellow pin with the Orange pin serving as the ground/return for the signal. The other pins on the Evaluation Kit Power/Data cable (from Motorola doucmentation) Yellow 1 pps Orange 1 pps return White/Clear Power return (gnd for 12 VDC & 5 VDC) Brown 5 volt battery backup for receivers without lithium battery option Blue Main power (+12 VDC) Green VPP (not used) You may be able to "jumper" this to your correct pin or you could make up a cable that would place the PPS signal on the serial port pin you desire. For the Oncore VP series of receivers the model number determines the "features" or "options" The following Model numbers are the standard Oncore VP production configurations. ALL exhibit less than 50 ns for 1 PPS & have RTC (clock) B3121P111x right angle antenna connector B4121P115x straight antenna connector [TAPR group buy model] B3121Z111x right angle antenna connector, carrier phase option B3221Z111x right angle antenna connector, carrier phase & battery option Source for above Oncore Tech Notes can be found on http://www.tapr.org and were provided by Synergy Systems. 73 G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 11:37:41 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id KAA20933; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:27:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:27:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:599] Re: Enclosure for TAC-2 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1338559455==_============" In-Reply-To: <34078A2D.E9B2A472@mediaone.net> --============_-1338559455==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The first enclosure we will be making available will be the one that fits inside a PC disk space. I'll attach a jpeg image of the concept we started with earlier this year. Should have something to announce in the next few weeks. We have a enclosure fab house in Dallas that our mechanical eng consultant uses and we have had very good result from them and good prices. Thanks for the ref...I'll keep it handy for the future. Cheers - Greg >There had been some discussion earlier this year and in the latest TAPR >newsletter >that a box may be fabricated for the TAC-2. May I suggets that you look >at >the cases at Lansing Instrament in Ithaca, NY (800)-847-3535 . > >There are not many companies that will do enclosures for prototypes or >quantity of >one - they have for other projects. > >G. Beat >W9GB --============_-1338559455==_============ Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="tac2.fdd.jpeg.jpg" ; x-mac-type="4A504547" ; x-mac-creator="3842494D" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="tac2.fdd.jpeg.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: x-uuencode --============_-1338559455==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- "Before you become too entranced with gorgeous gadgets and mesmerizing video displays, let me remind you that information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and wisdom is not foresight. Each grows out of the other and we need them all." -Arthur C. Clarke --============_-1338559455==_============-- Attachment converted: Power Mac:tac2.jpg (JPEG/JVWR) (00024A8A) From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 14:50:02 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA10554; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:15:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:15:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:600] Re: Oncore VP+Unix X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <199709041802.LAA09195@mail.redshift.com> >> I'll append the code I used to display the 1 second pulses (sorry it's >> just motorola binary format raw). Anyone know of some documentation >> for the format? the stuff I got with TAPR's kit is very lacking. >Frustrating >> to have a reference to a command description, but it wasn't included 8-( > >ONCORE User's Guide should be available from Synergy System (Art Sepin) for >about $50. If he can not sell it to you because of**** then contact me and >I can purchase the from Art. I am an OEM with Art. I see that Doug answered most of this question. I think the manual now costs $80. Anyway, the VP GPS engines we are providing normally come with _no_ documentation. You are suppose to get that when you get the $1000+ first package as Doug referred to in an earlier message. So, while you might believe that the few pages we are providing are lacking -- well that is all we can provide. If you think you need the full manual, just call Synergy System and order it from them. Probably something we need to add to the FAQ as we create it. The Moto Oncore VP GPS is one reason we have a working agreement with Synergy Systems on stuff like this. Art is great to work with and we hope that by making these types of things available to experimenters that Art will see future commercial sales. We get the benefit of a good price break based on some of our experimenters doing future commercial stuff down the road. As my father would say "priming the pump". A win-win situation for them and TAPR. What we try to setup on many of our commercial arrangements. Anyway, drop an e-mail to . Art should be able to take care of you. Doug and myself talked about doing some type of book or manuscript about these issues, but just talk thus far. Maybe we need to talk further and see what we have. Cheers - Greg ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- "Before you become too entranced with gorgeous gadgets and mesmerizing video displays, let me remind you that information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and wisdom is not foresight. Each grows out of the other and we need them all." -Arthur C. Clarke From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 15:09:15 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA12979; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:55:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:55:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:602] GPS-30PC Offer Extension X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" With the demand for the GPS30PC and the PSR getting out about 3 weeks late, Garmin has given us an extension until Sept 15th now to take orders for the GPS30PC. If you still want to get a GPS30PC, just call the TAPR office (940) 383-0000 or fax (940) 566-2544. E-mail is down at this time, so phone or fax please. For details, check out http://www.tapr.org/gps Cheers - Greg, WD5IVD ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- "Before you become too entranced with gorgeous gadgets and mesmerizing video displays, let me remind you that information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and wisdom is not foresight. Each grows out of the other and we need them all." -Arthur C. Clarke From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 15:09:15 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA12987; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:55:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:55:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:603] Re: Oncore+unix+ntp stratum-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <199709051201.FAA06173@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> >I ordered the $50 Oncore guide from Synergy systems. Glad you were able to get the manual from Art and the gang. It is pretty think and complete. >Using Linux, Lowe Antenae, Oncore VP, McKinney serial board, and xntpd I >now have a stratum-1 time server running off the oncore in NMEA mode. >I may tackle motorola's binary mode after I get the manual. >I plan to record the GPS error for post processing recorded data >to remove error, display various info about satalites, and do >play with position averaging once I get more documentation. The current >plan is to write a program to collect into from the gps, and then >feed only whats needed to the xntpd daemon. Then CGI/Java programs >to play with the rest of the available data. Great work Bill. I look forward to reading more about this. One reason we do stuff like this through TAPR. Cheers - Greg ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- "Before you become too entranced with gorgeous gadgets and mesmerizing video displays, let me remind you that information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and wisdom is not foresight. Each grows out of the other and we need them all." -Arthur C. Clarke From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 19:12:15 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA29000; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 18:00:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 18:00:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBAF7.12FA1900.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:604] RE: TAC32 - 1.0.3 (alpha) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Greg, TAC32 for Windows 95 and NT is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. It corrects a few bugs (see below) and adds a "heart beat" display in the status bar and a few new display parameters. Rick WB2TNL Notes on your last e-mail: > Yes, TAC32 did blank the clock fields for my Oncore VP receiver and the > main clock in the upper left was "frozen" at the one time (PC or GPS > clock?) upon program start up. That's always the PC time. In this case it's a snapshot. > I highlighted the clock digit field, hit the delete key > and received a frozen picture of the other clock and position fields. > [always do things you are not suppose to do during an alpha test, sneaky > too]. I was not able to duplicate this. > I was able to change the Motorola receiver with the Set Port command and > then "view" the raw data from the Oncore. Under NMEA, I had all 12 sat graphs > working under Binary I did not seem to be "seeing" the 7th satellite (all zeroes) > this later corrected. Parsing issue? I was not able to duplicate this. Could be related to the next problem. > When I put it into Search mode .... it seemed to "find" the Motorola > Binary mode quickly, but still frozen clock. > TAC32 eventually seemed to decide my receiver was okay and > 45 to 60 seconds later after program startup, the clock started running. Fixed. > I will continue to start and restart program over the weekend to try to > pin this "cause" down for you. > I also had a "148" error the first time that I tried to install the > program with Install Across the Web and the setup/install speed appeared to be much > slower this time around (could be net congestion on either of our ends) When the bugs get worked out I will be upgrading to a new version of this auto installer. >> The Garmin is now supported, at least in part. I don't have access to >> a Garmin so I hope someone will try it out. > I am sure that someone with a Garmin GPS-20 will try TAC32 and respond to > the discussion group. No takers, yet. Allen, where are you? From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 23:11:20 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA18340; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:58:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:58:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34120987.49FE@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:605] Comments after arriving back home X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Hi Gang -- back home from the latest trip. My travel this summer has been absolutely unreal! The latest trip was to Brazil as you may have gleaned from my one almost illegible message sent over a rusty barb wire internet connection. Had two downers on this trip -- while checking into a hotel in Fortaleza, some sneak thief stole my bag with my laptop computer and my digital camera in it -- at total loss of ~$8000. Then I arrived back home with a horrible cold and am only half with it now. Glad to see all the software activity supporting the TAC. Tonite I was able to fetch Rick's latest TAC32 code and have several comments after a few minutes of testing with my 8-channel ONCORE prototype: (1) One bug I find is in the Navigation Position Data in NMEA mode. Apparently the East=+/West=- longitude sign is not propagated properly. The Long seems OK in MOT Binary, but in NMEA my Long = 76d 56+ West displays as -75d 03+. The algorithm needs to take the +/- sign from the E/W indicator and apply it to all fields. I suspect the N/S Latitude sign has the same problem. (2) On one occasion, toggling between Mot Bin & Mot NMEA, I got the W95 "invalid op" error message. Can't seem to repeat it. (3) The new sorting by PRN (which should be capitalized)/El/Az/SNR buttons are nice. In SHOWTIME, I offer only the EL sort. I'd suggest that the EL sort be descending, with the highest elevation satellites at the top of the list. (4) My personal preference would be for the BIG digits to be true UTC, not PC time. (5) Comparing the functionality of TAC32 to SHOWTIME, the main differences I see are: a. SHOWTIME allows you to average the position reported by the receiver. This has proven to be a reliable way to determne position to the ~5 meter level. TAC32 still only shows the "raw" instantaneous position. b. SHOWTIME handles the setup of a number of parameters to optimize timekeeping for "laboratory" applications. By forcing the ONCORE into "zero-D" mode with the position locked, I routinely get 30 nsec or better accuracy & precision. TAC32 (so far) runs in "3-D" mode and the accuracy is limited to a couple of hundred nsec. Also, SHOWTIME allows the 1PPS hardware pulse epoch to be shifted either early or late. This is needed to achieve accuracy of a few tens of nsec (with respect to the USNO's master clock) by compensating for propagation delays in cables, and it can be used to intentionally bias the timing away from the UTC second (which is very useful in practice). c. SHOWTIME has a couple of other "bells 'n whistles" which I put in 'cuz I liked them: - It will compute your Maidenhead Grid Square - It can make "fake WWV" time ticks which makes setting other clocks a lot easier. In talking with Rick, he plans to implement several of the SHOWTIME "widgets" after he gets the basic structure solidified. (6) Regarding SHOWTIME -- it is now a year since I made any changes. Since SHOWTIME was written in compiled QuickBasic 4.5, it suffers badly from the limitations of the stock MessDOS/QB45 serial I/O routines, especially when trying to run under WinDoze. I have found a shareware SIO package that looks like it might solve the problems, but it will take some time to incorporate it into the code. I'm torn between the desire to make SHOWTIME be more bullet-proof and the desire to get back to working on the TOC (TAC Oscillator Controller -- a TAC-2 expansion board that will make a nearly-Rubidium quality frequency standard with stability in the 1:10e9 to 1:10e10 level). I'd appreciate your inputs on the priorities. [Or maybe one of you is a QB45 or PowerBasic expert who would step in and give me a hand?]. 73, Tom From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 23:11:21 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA18874; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34120BA0.29B7@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:606] Reply to Henk Uijterwaal X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) wrote: [snip] > BTW. We also have Motorola Oncore Evaluation kit. I connected that > one to the port where the TAPR is sitting and ran the program > again. It then does produce sensible output. However, this unit > doesn't give a 1 pps output to the computer (the CD pin in the > connector > that goes into the computer isn't even connected to anything). Also, > the unit works fine with the SHOWTIME program. So, > I'm now reasonably sure that the 1pps interferes with the program > reading the com port. The question remains how do I get around this? Regarding hardware changes to the EVAL kit, you will find what you need to do to make a "fake TAC" documented on my aleph ftp site: Fetch URL ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/emulate.txt and ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/emulate.zip The .txt file describes the modification, while the .zip file also has a schematic drawing in it. Tom From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 23:56:10 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA20413; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:43:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:43:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970906203730.00cb87e0@pop.azstarnet.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Lyle Johnson To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:607] Re: Comments after arriving back home X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <34120987.49FE@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) >...I'm torn between the >desire to make SHOWTIME be more bullet-proof and the desire to get back >to working on the TOC (TAC Oscillator Controller -- a TAC-2 expansion >board that will make a nearly-Rubidium quality frequency standard with >stability in the 1:10e9 to 1:10e10 level). I'd appreciate your inputs >on the priorities. I vote for TOC (who's surprised :-) Lyle From ???@??? Sat Sep 06 23:56:35 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA25626; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:55:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:55:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34122570.1A06@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:608] Another TAC32 Glitch X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Rick -- another buglet I spot. With TAC32 running in Mot BIN, it reports "9 visible, 6 tracked" while there are 8 satellites showing bars on the panel! I then go to Mot NMEA, and only 5 satellites show non-zero SNRs. I believe this points up a couple of problems: a. The scaling for SNRs that are "good" in BIN is probably wrong, and you should verify the "good" status by making sure in the @@Ea msg that the channel tracking (which has values 0-8) has climbed all the way to an 8 and also that bit 4 of the channel status is not reporting bit 3 (satellite inaccurate) or bit 4 (satellite unhealthy) b. Are you picking up the visible/tracked satellites by counting or from "nt" data in @@Ea? Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 13:06:40 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA08031; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:46:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:46:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBB93.DFEEFF60.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:611] TAC32 V1.0.5 Now available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, TAC32 Version 1.0.5 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. This version addresses the issues you raised in your two e-mails (see below). Rick =========== > .. Navigation Position Data in NMEA mode. > Apparently the East=+/West=- longitude sign is not propagated properly. FIXED. > On one occasion, toggling between Mot Bin & Mot NMEA, I got the > W95 "invalid op" error message. Can't seem to repeat it. Unable to duplicate. > I'd suggest that the EL sort be descending, with the highest elevation satellites > at the top of the list. I agree. This is implemented. Also, the EbNo (SNR) column is now reverse sorted for consistency with the new EL reverse sort. > My personal preference would be for the BIG digits to be true UTC, > not PC time. Now you can choose which display to show. The PC display selection is now in local time to eliminate any confusion. The choice is saved and restored when the program is restarted. > Comparing the functionality of TAC32 to SHOWTIME, the main > differences I see are ... TAC32 will have ALL the features of SHOWTIME, and more. I just need the time to finish it. The first priority has been to get the initial features running reliably and correctly because everything else builds on that foundation. I am putting in a lot of hours lately because TAC32 must mature to support all those new TAC kits that are getting into peoples hands. > Regarding SHOWTIME -- it is now a year since I made any changes. > ... I'm torn between the > desire to make SHOWTIME be more bullet-proof and the desire to get back > to working on the TOC Work on TOC! SHOWTIME is good enough for now and TAC32 will be fully functional soon. Others are working on Unix software. We need the TOC. > With TAC32 running in Mot BIN, it reports "9 visible, 6 tracked" while there are 8 satellites showing > bars on the panel! I then go to Mot NMEA, and only 5 satellites show non-zero SNRs. > ... > The scaling for SNRs that are "good" in BIN is probably wrong, and > you should verify the "good" status by making sure in the @@Ea msg > that the channel tracking (which has values 0-8) has climbed all > the way to an 8 and also that bit 4 of the channel status is not > reporting bit 3 (satellite inaccurate) or bit 4 (satellite unhealthy) I have added these tests. For now, if the channel tracking is not 8 then the EbNo will show a negative number (-1 to -7) as a flag. If the "unhealthy" bit is set, the EbNo will be set to -9. These flags are for testing. I want to know if these conditions occur. Later I will build a separate window, accessible from the View menu, to show all the satellite data fields for those who want to know what's really happening up there. I noticed that the NMEA and BIN messages do not always agree on the satellites in view and tracked numbers. I don't know why this is happening but I report what the messages tell me. I have not seen a mismatch between the "tracked" and the EbNo data within a mode, however. > Are you picking up the visible/tracked satellites by counting or > from "nt" data in @@Ea? I am using the "nt" data. From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 14:33:36 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id OAA13340; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:21:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:21:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970907121530.2b07262a@best.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Gordon T. Uber" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:613] Garmin vs. Motorola, Computerless operation X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) A friend, Paul Hopkins, is trying to decide between the Garmin and Motorola GPS engines from TAPR. He wants a 1 PPS timebase precise to better than 100 microseconds for timing high-accuracy mechanical pendulum clocks. 1. Which of the two choices provides more reliable operation? 2. Can he set up and use both of these without Showtime and without a computer if he only needs the 1 PPS? 3. Should he use one of these directly without the TAC-2 kit? Please send your replies to me or the list, since he has no Internet connection. Thanks. Gordon -- | XII | Gordon T. Uber, 3790 El Camino Real, Suite 142 | XI | Palo Alto, CA 94306-3314, email: gordon@ubr.com | X \ /| CLOCKS and TIME: http://www.ubr.com/clocks/ | IX \ / | Reynen & Uber WebDesign: http://www.ubr.com/rey&ubr From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 15:51:24 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA17589; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:45:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:45:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3412FF1F.619A@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:614] Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Rick -- thanks for incorporating the changes. I see one (new?) problem in the Nav position report in NMEA. You are reporting under Alt(GPS) the geoid separation, not the MSL altitude corrected for the geoid separation. It is these very fields that drove me to distraction in SHOWTIME. Motorola's latest ONCOREs finally have it right, but I chose to support all the previous firmware versions too. In the early firmware, they reported GPS hgt, not the NMEA specified MSL height. After they made the change from WGS84 to MSL, they got the sign of the correction wrong. So of the 4 possibities for the two fields [WGS84 vs MSL, +/- sign] they have used 3 of them! Specifically, here (as best as I could glean) are the firmware versions that apply: 0.x to 4.x --- don't know -- these are real antiques 5.x to 6.9 Reported hgt = WGS but Geoid Sign is correct 7.x --- to my knowledge these revs were never used 8.0 to 8.6 Reported hgt = MSL and Geoid Sign is wrong 8.7 onwards Reported hgt = MSL and Geoid Sign is finally correct! FYI -- The Garmins and Trimbles have always had it correct. When the sign is corrected, then (WGS84 HGT) = (NMEA MSL HGT) + (Correct NMEA Geoid Separation) Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 16:21:19 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA19387; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:06:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:06:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <341316F3.60237D6D@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:615] TAC32 alpha [1.0.5] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Rick, Had other duties this weekend .... and I see that you now have a 1.0.5 alpha release --- I will skip 1.0.4, perform the update and testing. Tom Clark (W3IWI) wrote: > Specifically, here (as best as I could glean) are the firmware > versions that apply: > > 0.x to 4.x --- don't know -- these are real antiques > 5.x to 6.9 Reported hgt = WGS but Geoid Sign is correct > 7.x --- to my knowledge these revs were never > used > 8.0 to 8.6 Reported hgt = MSL and Geoid Sign is wrong > 8.7 onwards Reported hgt = MSL and Geoid Sign is finally > correct! The nice part about this logic is that you have already "captured"the version number and revision number. FYI, my Oncore is 8.8 --- so I won't be able to verify the 8.0 to 8.6 code. > FYI -- The Garmins and Trimbles have always had it correct. > > When the sign is corrected, then > (WGS84 HGT) = (NMEA MSL HGT) + (Correct NMEA Geoid > Separation) As I mentioned earlier, once the "math & calcualtions" are correct for the Motorola and Garmin, the key will be how the various pieces of information are organized (or presented to end user) in the windows interface. I am looking at Tom Clark's SHOWTIME program as well as other time and clocking packages to observe common threads [Reverse engineering a TAC32 requirements document] G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 16:21:20 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA19396; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:06:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:06:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709072105.OAA22744@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:616] Garmin vs. Motorola, Computerless operation (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text >A friend, Paul Hopkins, is trying to decide between the Garmin >and Motorola GPS engines from TAPR. He wants a 1 PPS timebase >precise to better than 100 microseconds for timing high-accuracy >mechanical pendulum clocks. > >1. Which of the two choices provides more reliable operation? No experience with the other but Oncore VP has a PPS which is rated to have a 50 ns accurate PPS when in position hold mode. >2. Can he set up and use both of these without Showtime and >without a computer if he only needs the 1 PPS? I'm using the: http://www.tapr.org/gps/vpib.html VP Interface Board Kit It's got a 1 PPS signal available on the board, and I BELIEVE (not sure I understand this correctly), theres also a spare TTL->serial converted on the MAX232 chip. I'm using the above to get the PPS signal into a linux box which has kernel support for this. It converges down to 3 ms but then diverges I think this is a software problems as opposed to missing PPS signals. I.e.: 0103 0 -56.044 342 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 257 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 193 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 145 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 109 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 82 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 62 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 47 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 36 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 27 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 21 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 16 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 12 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 9 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 7 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 6 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 5 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 4 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 3 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 3 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 3 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 3 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 3 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 0103 0 -56.044 3 8 2.217 594 386 38 36 I believe the 4th column is the jitter in ms. >3. Should he use one of these directly without the TAC-2 kit? The Oncore VP+serial board gives you a fine PPS, and should be quite accurate. I don't have enough experience personally to say how reliable it is. Kinda hard to debug when you don't have an oscope. -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 18:12:07 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA27245; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:08:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:08:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBBC0.6EDB1DE0.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:617] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, I have made these corrections. Version TAC32 version 1.0.6 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. I had been looking forward to figuring out the geoid issue ever since you first mentioned this problem. I am confused about one thing, however. For the old receivers where the "antenna height" field is reported in WGS84 instead of the correct MSL, how do I get MSL? Add the "geoid separation" to the (incorrect) height? If so, that would explain why the next generation receivers had the sign wrong on the "geoid separation" field. To try to get a better handle on all this, I pulled out my copy of NMEA-0183. Now I understand why Motorola got it wrong. NMEA didn't specify the height field as MSL or WGS-84. It's not a very good spec. An additional correction has been made. In Motorola BIN mode, if the receiver is an 8-channel unit, the position data, Sat visibility and tracked data were not being updated. This explains why the NMEA and BIN modes did not always agree and why the BIN mode visibility and tracked data sometimes didn't agree with the satellite data fields (EbNo, etc.). This is fixed. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Tom Clark (W3IWI) [SMTP:clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 1997 4:45 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:614] Latest TAC32 Rick -- thanks for incorporating the changes. I see one (new?) problem in the Nav position report in NMEA. You are reporting under Alt(GPS) the geoid separation, not the MSL altitude corrected for the geoid separation. It is these very fields that drove me to distraction in SHOWTIME. Motorola's latest ONCOREs finally have it right, but I chose to support all the previous firmware versions too. In the early firmware, they reported GPS hgt, not the NMEA specified MSL height. After they made the change from WGS84 to MSL, they got the sign of the correction wrong. So of the 4 possibities for the two fields [WGS84 vs MSL, +/- sign] they have used 3 of them! Specifically, here (as best as I could glean) are the firmware versions that apply: 0.x to 4.x --- don't know -- these are real antiques 5.x to 6.9 Reported hgt = WGS but Geoid Sign is correct 7.x --- to my knowledge these revs were never used 8.0 to 8.6 Reported hgt = MSL and Geoid Sign is wrong 8.7 onwards Reported hgt = MSL and Geoid Sign is finally correct! FYI -- The Garmins and Trimbles have always had it correct. When the sign is corrected, then (WGS84 HGT) = (NMEA MSL HGT) + (Correct NMEA Geoid Separation) Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 18:42:00 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA00757; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709072351.TAA03228@meow.febo.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: John Ackermann N8UR To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:618] Antenna location for fixed TAC system? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 How much of the sky does the antenna need to see for reliable TAC use? I'm debating whether it's worth the effort (and increased feedline loss) to mount the GPS antenna up on my tower above the roofline, where it will have a clear shot for 180 degrees (west through north to east), and a shot through trees for the other 180 degrees. Alternatively, I can just stick the antenna out the basement window, where it will see pretty well from north through east, and then through trees (below 45 degree elevation, anyway) from east through south. Any thoughts? John N8UR (ex-AG9V) jra@febo.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 18:56:58 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA08267; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:54:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:54:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709072350.QAA23552@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:619] Antenna location for fixed TAC system? (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text >How much of the sky does the antenna need to see for reliable TAC use? > >I'm debating whether it's worth the effort (and increased feedline loss) to >mount the GPS antenna up on my tower above the roofline, where it will have a >clear shot for 180 degrees (west through north to east), and a shot through >trees for the other 180 degrees. Alternatively, I can just stick the antenna >out the basement window, where it will see pretty well from north through >east, and then through trees (below 45 degree elevation, anyway) from east >through south. I believe a reliable clock only requires one satalite to be tracked. Currently over the last 24 hours I've seen between 4-8 sats with an average around 6. I have the antenna placed on an inside windowsill on the 2nd story of a 2 story building. Only 30-40% of the sky is visible but I guess it's possible it's getting signals through my roof. If you can get the number of sats visible (easy if you have access to the NMEA output of the gps) I'd suggest do the cheap, easy, quick solution and if you aren't seeing enough for your tastes then you can improve it. BTW I'm using an Oncore VP + Lowe antenae. -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 19:57:01 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id TAA12195; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:53:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:53:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Dave Martindale To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:620] Re: Comments after arriving back home X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <34120987.49FE@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> I'll also cast my vote in favour of TOC. By the way, it would be helpful to me if the TOC was designed to work with as generic as possible a GPS clock source, and depended as little as possible on the specific TAC board sold by TAPR. A while ago, I obtained a GPS-20, but the TAPR TAC kit was not yet available. I couldn't wait, so I built a TAC equivalent. It has the same sort of outputs that the TAPR TAC does, and I borrowed some parts of its design. I now have a box that behaves almost identically to a TAC but which does not have a TAPR board inside it. I imagine that there are other people out there who have GPS timing receivers with 1 PPS outputs that are not TACs, but who would be interested in a TOC that is capable of being connected to their hardware. Dave From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 19:57:02 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id TAA12203; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:53:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:53:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34134C61.77176A96@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:621] Re: Where to put the antenna? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > How much of the sky does the antenna need to see for reliable > TAC use? I have had the antenna on the bench, near the ceiling/roof (third floor)and at the window. The window was usually provided the best results. Like Bill, on average I see from 2 to 6 "birds". On rare occasions when I was running SHOWTIME, I would hear the "no lock" - unreliable time beeping. It would usually only last for a couple of minutes before one would rise or come into view. [BTW, I have a wonderful church steeple that is across the street that does a wonderful job blocking in the NE up to about 40 degrees elevation] > I'm debating whether it's worth the effort (and increased > feedline loss) to > mount the GPS antenna up on my tower above the roofline, where > it will have a > clear shot for 180 degrees (west through north to east), and a > shot through > trees for the other 180 degrees. Alternatively, I can just > stick the antenna > out the basement window, where it will see pretty well from > north through > east, and then through trees (below 45 degree elevation, > anyway) from east > through south. I am using the Motorola "hockey puck" (built in LNA) and this made all thedifference compared to the simple 'L' band patch antenna with no LNA. If you are going to mount it outside and up a tower, (if it was me) I would probably choose one of the marine style antennas, like the Trimble. Maybe someone would suggest the best style for regular outdoor use and for harsh (salt water, snow belt etc.) environments/climates. G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 22:54:48 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA20510; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:39:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:39:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970907223239.006a0480@minnie.jsc.draper.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Kenneth R. Goodwin, Jr." To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:622] Re: GPS-30PC Offer Extension X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) I haven't seen much technical info on the GPS-30PC so a few "novice" questions: 1. I'm interested in APRS. Will this unit work for that mode (I remember the one serial port disallows DGPS). 2. Does stand-alone software exist for the unit, either as part of the shipment or shareware, i.e., can I use the unit with a power supply and a laptop? Or in another vein, how do I initially check out the unit to ascertain if it is dead on arrival? (I also have read the TAPR constraints on the offer which sounds more than fair.) 73, Ken K5RG From ???@??? Sun Sep 07 22:54:50 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA20971; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:46:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:46:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <36369@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:623] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio In-Reply-To: your message of Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:08:53 -0500 (CDT). Rick -- I'll pull down the release of the day. Noted another wierdo. Sometimes when a satellite is not being tracked, the Eb/No shows as 4264. Since 1/r**2 from the smallest subatomic particle to the size of the universe is only 1o**80 = 1600 dB, I think your calculation is wrong ;<} Tom From ???@??? Mon Sep 08 00:04:39 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id AAA00345; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:04:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:04:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970908045929.006bcb00@popd.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Dave Deets To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:624] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) I'm using a Garmin GPS II with TAC32 1.0.6. The only clock readout that I get is the bold readout at the top & it is the PC time at program start. Also at the bottom of the bar graphs it reads "8 satellites visible 0 tracked" the bar graph shows 5 or 6 visible & so does my GPS. Any suggestions? Thanks Dave Deets KE6HFA dave@deets.com From ???@??? Mon Sep 08 07:08:32 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id HAA10697; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:00:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:00:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:625] Re: Reply to Henk Uijterwaal X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <34120BA0.29B7@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> On Sat, 6 Sep 1997, Tom Clark (W3IWI) wrote: > Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) wrote: > > BTW. We also have Motorola Oncore Evaluation kit. I connected that > > one to the port where the TAPR is sitting and ran the program > > again. It then does produce sensible output. However, this unit > > doesn't give a 1 pps output to the computer (the CD pin in the > > connector > > that goes into the computer isn't even connected to anything). Also, > > the unit works fine with the SHOWTIME program. So, > > I'm now reasonably sure that the 1pps interferes with the program > > reading the com port. The question remains how do I get around this? > Regarding hardware changes to the EVAL kit, you will find what you need > to do to make a "fake TAC" documented on my aleph ftp site: Fetch URL > ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/emulate.txt > and ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/emulate.zip > The .txt file describes the modification, while the .zip file also has > a schematic drawing in it. Thanks for the pointer but (I guess I didn't make myself too clear) I have exactly the opposite problem. I don't want to convert the Motorola into a TAC, I just want to talk under Unix (BSD, though Linux for a start would be fine too) to the TAC. I have a piece of code that sets up the com port, sends a command string (@@Cj() to the Motorola or TAC, and then starts reading from the com port. I'd expect to get a string back that starts with @@. When I do this with the Motorola, this is indeed the case. With the TAC however, I get something back but it doesn't even contain @@. Now, when I look at the cables, then the Motorola cable only has ground, transmit and receive connected. The TAC has a 1 pps on one of the other lines. This seems to suggest that the program that sets up the com port is ok, but that the 1 PPS interferes with reading from the port. What I'm looking for is a way to get around this. It has been suggested on this list to use the kernel routine ioctl() but, after an afternoon of reading man pages and looking at kernel sources, I haven't figured out with which parameters I have to call ioctl. I know that it must be possible to do this, after all, showtime works fine and it does use both the 1 pps as well as the data from the tac. Henk. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 07:05:58 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id HAA14470; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:626] More TAC trouble.... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <34120BA0.29B7@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Hi, Well, I finally found why the data that I got from the TAC was completely unreadable: believe it or not, I was reading at the wrong baud rate :-( This is actually documented in one of the doc-file: Showtime uses 9600 baud to send data to the TAC, then switches to 4800 NMEA format for normal operations. And, the way I ran my program was to use showtime to check that TAC was working, then switch to Unix and try to talk to the box at 9600 baud. Anyway, if I "listen" to the box at 4800 baud, I get a bunch of $GPxxx,,,,, strings every second with the correct time and position. Now, for my application I have to have full control of the TAC and want to use the Motorola format for that. Does anybody know how to switch the TAC back to 9600 baud and Motorola format? There should be a NMEA command for that, but I couldn't find that in the xerox of the manual that came with the TAC. Can anybody with a full manual have a look in his copy? Other than that, I guess it's a matter of setting up the port at 4800, send it the right string and set the port up again at 9600. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands Home: +31.20.6651962 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %DCL-E-NOCFFE, unable to locate coffee - keyboard input suspended. From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 08:50:35 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id IAA18211; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:45:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:45:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBD04.16C8ABA0@1Cust44.max10.orlando.fl.ms.uu.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "John K. Pringle" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:627] RE: [tacgps:607] Re: Comments after arriving back home X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBD04.16C8ABA0" MIME-Version: 1.0 On 6/9/97 Tom Clark wrote: >I'm torn between the desire to make SHOWTIME be more bullet-proof and the desire to get back to >working on the TOC (TAC Oscillator Controller-a TAC-2 expansion board that will make a nearly->Rubidium quality frequency standard with stability in the 1:10e9 to 1:10e10 level). I'd appreciate >your inputs on the priorities. By all means let's go full steam ahead with the TOC. Many of us are eagerly awaiting it. SHOWTIME is in pretty good shape. 73, John W4SF From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 16:01:09 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA25593; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:55:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:55:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3415B55B.9A152D1F@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:628] Which way is up ? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) On 6/9/97 Tom Clark wrote: >I'm torn between the desire to make SHOWTIME be more bullet-proof and the desire to get back to >working on the TOC (TAC Oscillator Controller-a TAC-2 expansion board that will make a nearly >Rubidium quality frequency standard with stability in the 1:10e9 to 1:10e10 level). I'd appreciate >your inputs on the priorities. Tom, as long as you don't mind Richard Hambly, Henk Uijterwaal or I asking questions as we port the SHOWTIME functionality to other operating systems (32 bit Windows & Linux), I would go ahead with the TOC step. G. Beat W9GB From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 22:20:46 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA28720; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:31:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:31:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBD6F.E1FE7320.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:629] TAC32 Version 1.0.7 now available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, Greg, TAC32 Version 1.0.7 now available for testing at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. This version has sound effects which can be turned on/off from the Data/Sound Effects menu item. Rick WB2TNL From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 22:20:47 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA29355; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:39:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:39:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBD70.4DCD0580.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:630] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, I assume this was in Mot Bin mode. I have been looking for this but I haven't seen it. I'll keep this bug report open until I can track it down. Rick -----Original Message----- From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov [SMTP:clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 1997 11:47 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:623] RE: Latest TAC32 Rick -- I'll pull down the release of the day. Noted another wierdo. Sometimes when a satellite is not being tracked, the Eb/No shows as 4264. Since 1/r**2 from the smallest subatomic particle to the size of the universe is only 1o**80 = 1600 dB, I think your calculation is wrong ;<} Tom From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 22:20:54 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA02071; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:20:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:20:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34160FD7.F33520C1@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:631] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Rick, >From Tom's original report: > -----Original Message----- > From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov > [SMTP:clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov] > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 1997 11:47 PM > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:623] RE: Latest TAC32 > > Rick -- I'll pull down the release of the day. Noted another > wierdo. > Sometimes when a satellite is not being tracked, the Eb/No > shows as > 4264. Since 1/r**2 from the smallest subatomic particle to the > size > of the universe is only 1o**80 = 1600 dB, I think your > calculation is > wrong ;<} > > Tom Rick, I have seen on at least three occasions the same "weird" Eb/No number that Tom is reporting. [I believe I was in Mot Bin mode]. I seem to observe it at my location at the beginning or end of "acquisition" low elevation [it eventually rights itself]. On your latest, the latency has changed (sound effects?). Instead of 35 to 40 which was typical for my setup, it now runs aorund 185 to 190. The Mot Bin always graphs a maximum of 8 satellites, while Mot NMEA will show (graph) the 9 or 10 reported visible at the bottom. I like the feature of resorting the graph based on which "radio" button [PRN, El, Azm, Eb/No] that you push. Did Tom see that. I use it to "map" my Azm blind spots. I have also noted my QTH altitude(GPS) had been reported as low as 6 meters (sea side?) to 300 meters in altitude(GPS) in one evening. Now I know Tom is working with the geologists on occasion, but I do not think there was a subsiding event near Lake Michigan (of course, that may have been the switch you installed to change my frame of reference, what was that new value of 'c' for the speed of light that you used?) Greg From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 22:20:54 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA02079; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:20:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:20:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34161082.42280D7E@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:632] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.7 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Richard M. Hambly wrote: > Tom, Greg, > > TAC32 Version 1.0.7 now available for testing at > http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. > > This version has sound effects which can be turned on/off from > the Data/Sound Effects menu item. I just confirmed that the sound effect "ON" adds to the displyed latency.Turning it "OFF" restores to anticipated latency numbers. Greg W9GB From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 22:37:39 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA02562; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:30:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:30:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34161288.496B59D4@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:633] TAC32 Suggestion #1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Rick, I will start with the easy request. Let's expand upon status bar you have created at the bottom of the window [you already have your flashing red cursor in the bottom right corner]. Status Bar would consist of 6 fields, from left to right [value options in brackets] Mode [Mot Bin, Mot NMEA, Garmin?] Time [ UTC (+ or -) xx ] where xx is the offset from the Win95 time/date function call Local Time [EST, EDT, CST, CDT, etc] I believe that this is also a Win95 function call Speed of computer connection to GPS reciver [4800, 9600, others] Com port being used [COM1, COM2, COM3, etc.] Flashing red cursor [1 pps visual] That is all for right now. The nice part is that you already have the toggle built into the View selction from the Top Menu bar. Greg From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 23:26:53 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA06311; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:19:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:19:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBD7E.363C9440.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:634] Another Fix - Version 1.0.8 is out X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, I found and corrected this problem. In a recent release I added a check for the various reasons why a satellite might not be navigating and decided to replace EbNo with -1 through -7 and -9 as tags to those reason codes. Unfortunately, the EbNo field was defined as an unsigned integer so the small negative numbers looked like large positive ones. I also found an error with the new time ticks at the top of the minute. I was looking at the PC clock which can show two "0" seconds in a row (i.e. 03:03:00.000, 03:03:00.999). I now look to the GPS clock for this so the "double beep" will not happen again. With luck I caught this before you downloaded version 1.0.7. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Richard M. Hambly [SMTP:rick@cnssys.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 10:33 PM To: 'tacgps@tapr.org' Subject: RE: [TACGPS:623] RE: Latest TAC32 Tom, I assume this was in Mot Bin mode. I have been looking for this but I haven't seen it. I'll keep this bug report open until I can track it down. Rick -----Original Message----- From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov [SMTP:clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 1997 11:47 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:623] RE: Latest TAC32 Rick -- I'll pull down the release of the day. Noted another wierdo. Sometimes when a satellite is not being tracked, the Eb/No shows as 4264. Since 1/r**2 from the smallest subatomic particle to the size of the universe is only 1o**80 = 1600 dB, I think your calculation is wrong ;<} Tom From ???@??? Tue Sep 09 23:41:53 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA07582; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:33:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:33:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCBD80.B498AF20.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:635] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Greg, > ... "weird" Eb/No number ... FIXED in V1.0.8. > ... latency [was] 35 to 40 {is now] 185 to 190. WOW. My machine runs latency of -1 typically. My laptop runs at about -40. Please describe your hardware for me. I may be making an error in the order of critical operations. I'll look into this. > Mot Bin always graphs max 8 satellites ... Mot NMEA ... 9 or 10 Motorola, in their infinite wisdom, chose to limit the information to the best 8 satellites in their proprietary binary format. The binary format is much better than the NMEA in many other respects, however. > I like the feature of resorting the graph based on which "radio" > button [PRN, El, Azm, Eb/No] that you push. Thanks. That was Tom's idea and it was no easy task, I'll tell you! > ...my QTH altitude(GPS) had been reported as low as 6 meters (sea side?) > to 300 meters in altitude(GPS) in one evening. This is perfectly normal during non-differentially corrected receivers with Selective Availability (SA) turned on by DoD and with the wide variations in DOPs. The vertical is about 1.5 times more sensitive to these errors than the horizontal plus you are personally more sensitive to this variation than to the same errors in a latitude or longitude. The current "guarantees" are +-100meters 95% of the time and +-300meters essentially 100% of the time horizontally and 1.5 times that vertically. TAC32 will soon have the much needed self-survey feature so you can average these thing out (yes, they are generally 0-mean, gaussian distributed errors). Then you will be able to lock the GPS receiver in place at the surveyed location so that your time reference will get MUCH better. Greg From ???@??? Fri Sep 12 00:09:32 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id IAA08912; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:58:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:58:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Mike Cheponis (by way of Greg Jones, Wd5IVD) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:636] Trimble: new GPS Clock X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Trimble Introduces New GPS Clock for Precise Timing DALLAS, Sept. 10 /PRNewswire/ - Anticipating the continued growth of the wireless voice and data infrastructure, Trimble (Nasdaq: TRMB) introduced today at the Personal Communications Showcase (PCS) '97 - Thunderbolt(TM), a GPS clock for precise synchronization of wireless networks. Each wireless system requires its own unique slice of the radio spectrum. In order to optimize its assigned spectrum across very large geographical areas, wireless systems must be carefully timed and synchronized. Trimble's Thunderbolt takes GPS disciplined clocks to a new level of integration that provides a simple, cost effective and high performance solution. GPS clocks provide superior performance for precise timing applications such as maintaining tough Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) holdover specifications, Enhanced 911 (E911) location positioning using Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA), and maximizing bandwidth for wireless local loops. Thunderbolt captures the features that these applications require, such as 10 MHz reference signals, a 1 PPS and a self survey mode that provides "plug-in" integration. GPS is used to discipline or calibrate the oscillator to remove small biases in the frequency. By eliminating a quartz oscillator's natural tendency to drift, the unit gives a long term stability that rivals atomic clocks. Thunderbolt takes this process to the next step by combining the GPS receiver control circuitry and high-quality ovenized oscillator on a single board, allowing the removal of duplicate parts and tricky steering algorithms that rely on comparing 1 PPS. Thunderbolt can also operate with Trimble's Bullet II in hostile RF-jamming environments often encountered at wireless network transmitter sites. According to Peter Kuykendall, Trimble's Product Manager for Software & Component Technologies, "Wireless providers around the globe are in a phase of launching new data and voice services, all of which require sophisticated management of bandwidth allocation. Thunderbolt's unprecedented level of integration allows designers to deliver products which maximize communications infrastructure investments." The product is expected to be available within 8 to 12 weeks after receipt of order. About Trimble Trimble is a world leader in the emerging commercial markets for GPS satellite-based navigation, positioning and communication data products. The company holds more U.S. patents on GPS and related technology than any other organization. These products are sold worldwide for diverse applications including land and hydrographic surveying; mapping/GIS data acquisition; agriculture; military; general, corporate and commercial aviation; marine navigation; vehicle tracking and communications; and mobile GPS. The company also manufactures and sells GPS engines for the OEM market. Founded in 1978 and located in Sunnyvale, CA, Trimble has been a leader in providing GPS solutions since 1984. For an interactive look at company news and products, visit Trimble's site on the World Wide Web at http://www.trimble.com. SOURCE Trimble -0- 09/10/97 /CONTACT: Lea Ann McNabb of Trimble, 408-481-7808, or leaann_mcnabbtrimble.com/ (TRMB) CO: Trimble ST: California, Texas IN: CPR SU: PDT From ???@??? Fri Sep 12 00:09:58 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA23061; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:25:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:25:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <341828D8.41C67EA6@ripe.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Olaf Kolkman To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:637] QST: Configuration FreeBSD with PPS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; BSD/OS 2.0 i386) Keywords: xntpd 3.90, PPS, FreeBSD 2.2 Hello, I'm trying to get the following configuration to work: - FreeBSD 2.2 compiled with PPS_SYNC as an option in the kernel configuration file. - A PPS signal from a GPS clock (TAC2) on the DCD of serial port one. (/dev/pps0 -> /dev/ttyd0). I do not (yet) want to use any timecoding information. So only like to use the PPS and external ntp-peers to drive the kernels ppl. Here is the ntp.conf I use: enable pps server 127.127.22.0 fudge 127.127.22.0 flag3 1 server 193.78.241.12 prefer server 193.78.241.14 server 193.78.241.16 server 193.0.0.130 server 193.0.0.193 logconfig =all driftfile /var/db/ntp.drift statsdir /var/log/xntp/ statistics loopstats peerstats clockstats logfile /var/log/xntp/logfile The log output is: ./xntpd bash-2.00# Sep 11 19:02:40 pijp xntpd[5192]: xntpd 3-5.90 Thu Sep 11 18:28:52 CEST 1997 (15) Sep 11 19:02:40 pijp xntpd[5192]: tickadj = 5, tick = 10000, tvu_maxslew = 495, est. hz = 100 Sep 11 19:02:40 pijp xntpd[5192]: using kernel phase-lock loop 0041 Sep 11 19:02:40 pijp xntpd[5192]: logging to file /var/log/xntp/logfile 11 Sep 19:02:40 xntpd[5192]: system event 'event_restart' (0x01) status 'sync_alarm, sync_unspec, 1 event, event_unspec' (0xc010) 11 Sep 19:02:42 xntpd[5192]: peer 193.78.241.12 event 'event_reach' (0x84) status 'reach, conf, 1 event, event_reach' (0x9014) 11 Sep 19:02:43 xntpd[5192]: peer 193.78.241.14 event 'event_reach' (0x84) status 'reach, conf, 1 event, event_reach' (0x9014) 11 Sep 19:02:44 xntpd[5192]: peer 193.78.241.16 event 'event_reach' (0x84) status 'reach, conf, 1 event, event_reach' (0x9014) 11 Sep 19:02:45 xntpd[5192]: peer 193.0.0.130 event 'event_reach' (0x84) status 'reach, conf, 1 event, event_reach' (0x9014) 11 Sep 19:02:46 xntpd[5192]: peer 193.0.0.193 event 'event_reach' (0x84) status 'reach, conf, 1 event, event_reach' (0x9014) 11 Sep 19:04:49 xntpd[5192]: clock ATOM_PPS(0) fault 'clk_fault' (0x03) 11 Sep 19:06:58 xntpd[5192]: system event 'event_peer/strat_chg' (0x04) status 'sync_alarm, sync_ntp, 2 events, event_restart' (0xc621) 11 Sep 19:06:58 xntpd[5192]: synchronized to 193.78.241.12, stratum=1 11 Sep 19:06:58 xntpd[5192]: kernel pll status change 8f ... Somehow something generates faults on ATOM_PPS and I do not know what goes wrong. The error message ( ATOM_PPS(0) fault 'clk_fault' (0x03) ) is generated during a routine called atom_poll in refclock_atom.c but I do not understand what goes wrong exactly. Concrete questions: If you have a working FreeBSD xntp system with PPS_SYNC configured please send me your kernel configuration file, your ntp configuration file and any patches I might need to get the PPS working. If you know what the error means please tell me as well. If you can tell me how a log file should look when PPS is used (using TIOCDCTIMESTAMPs) so I can check that we actually do get a PPS you would also be most helpfull. Please post the answer to this forum and CC me on OKolkman@ripe.net Cheers, Olaf Kolkman From ???@??? Fri Sep 12 00:10:50 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA00124; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:03:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:03:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34187666.4B3D2DBE@mediaone.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: gregory.beat@mediaone.net (Gregory Beat) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:638] RE: Latest TAC32 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOECE (Win95; U) Richard M. Hambly wrote: > "weird" Eb/No number ... > > FIXED in V1.0.8. I have seen the -7 in the Eb/No on a couple occasionslast night (Wednesday). > > ... latency [was] 35 to 40 {is now] 185 to 190. > > WOW. My machine runs latency of -1 typically. My laptop runs > at about > -40. > Please describe your hardware for me. > I may be making an error in the order of critical operations. > I'll look > into this. Motorola "hockey puck" antenna (now sitting in window sill)6 meters RG-58 cable to receiver [Tom has correction in Showtme for length, etc] Oncore VP 8 channel [TAPR model] attached to TAC-2 board with "Gold" capacitor option 486 100 MHz 32 Mb memory running Windows 95, all latest patches & service releases I use the AccuSet 4.1 package and update the computer's internal clock on a weekly basis with the USNO clock in Maryland. Based on the past sixty day base line, my internal clock accuracy is + 1.71 sec/day [My computer clock runs a bit fast]. > > Mot Bin always graphs max 8 satellites ... Mot NMEA ... 9 or > 10 > > Motorola, in their infinite wisdom, chose to limit the > information to the > best 8 satellites in their proprietary binary format. The > binary format is > much better than the NMEA in many other respects, however. This evening I have noted that in Motorola Binary mode,the bottom right status line reported 9 visible, 5 tracked --- and incremeted to 6 as I watched. but only 6 satellites [no change during status line increment] were shown on the tracking graph.... the other two (to make 8) were all zeroes. Raw data view shows that I am indeed in Mot binary mode. Am I a 6 channel receiver now? I will cycle TAC32 and if that does not work, Oncore/ TAC-2 as well. Greg From ???@??? Fri Sep 12 18:27:38 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA28555; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:53:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:53:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970912145058.0068c6ac@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:639] Re: Trimble: new GPS Clock X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) regarding this message ..... > Trimble Introduces New GPS Clock for Precise Timing > > DALLAS, Sept. 10 /PRNewswire/ - Anticipating the continued > growth of the wireless voice and data infrastructure, Trimble > (Nasdaq: TRMB) introduced today at the Personal Communications > Showcase (PCS) '97 - Thunderbolt(TM), a GPS clock for precise > synchronization of wireless networks. Each wireless system > requires its own unique slice of the radio spectrum. In order to > optimize its assigned spectrum across very large geographical > areas, wireless systems must be carefully timed and synchronized. > Trimble's Thunderbolt takes GPS disciplined clocks to a new level > of integration that provides a simple, cost effective and high > performance solution. .... blah blah blah ..... The press release shows the trimble.com web site as a reference. However, the web site shows no reference to this, including the excite search engine. The press release had the predictable platitudes. Does anyone have any real factoids about Thunderbolt? Tom From ???@??? Sat Sep 13 09:18:56 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id TAA01432; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:59:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:59:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970912174617.0072a644@pop.azstarnet.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Lyle Johnson To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:640] Re: Trimble: new GPS Clock X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970912145058.0068c6ac@tomcat> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Tom et al, I'll be at ION next week. If I can find out anything (and if Trimble is still speaking to me :-) I will see what I can get. Lyle At 01:53 PM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote: >regarding this message ..... >> Trimble Introduces New GPS Clock for Precise Timing >> >> DALLAS, Sept. 10 /PRNewswire/ - Anticipating the continued >> growth of the wireless voice and data infrastructure, Trimble >> (Nasdaq: TRMB) introduced today at the Personal Communications >> Showcase (PCS) '97 - Thunderbolt(TM), a GPS clock for precise >> synchronization of wireless networks. Each wireless system >> requires its own unique slice of the radio spectrum. In order to >> optimize its assigned spectrum across very large geographical >> areas, wireless systems must be carefully timed and synchronized. >> Trimble's Thunderbolt takes GPS disciplined clocks to a new level >> of integration that provides a simple, cost effective and high >> performance solution. .... blah blah blah ..... > >The press release shows the trimble.com web site as a reference. However, >the web site shows no reference to this, including the excite search >engine. The press release had the predictable platitudes. Does anyone >have any real factoids about Thunderbolt? > >Tom > > > From ???@??? Sat Sep 13 09:19:28 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id AAA03249; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:57:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:57:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970913045034.0068ff14@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:641] Re: Trimble: new GPS Clock X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970912174617.0072a644@pop.azstarnet.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 19:59 09/12/97 -0500, Lyle wrote: >Tom et al, > >I'll be at ION next week. If I can find out anything (and if Trimble is >still speaking to me :-) I will see what I can get. > >Lyle Unfortunately, I won't be there. Be sure to give us a core-dump on what you see that's new & great! And pse report if anyone is talking about our TAC exploits. Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 00:38:22 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA15461; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:25:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:25:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <341B4AF3.EF94CF@erols.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Allen Schaeffer To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:642] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) Rick: Sorry for the late reply - I've been on vacation & had no net access. I have downloaded TAC32 1.0.8 and have tried it for a few minutes. The time display is still not updated beyond the initial time at startup. All other time displays are blank. The sound of clock "ticks" is present as is the blinking "heartbeat". Satellites received data appears to be present as well as signal strength. No location data is displayed. I am able to observe real time data, so the baud rate problem appears to have been corrected. I will continue to observe the operation of this version and hopefully will now be available if you have questions regarding the Garmin 20. - Allen WA3ZYM From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 00:38:24 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA17893; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:24:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:24:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914021811.00694014@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:643] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <341B4AF3.EF94CF@erols.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 21:25 09/13/97 -0500, WA3ZYM wrote: >Rick: > >Sorry for the late reply - I've been on vacation & had no net access. I have >downloaded TAC32 1.0.8 and have tried it for a few minutes. The time display >is still not updated beyond the initial time at startup. All other time >displays are blank. The sound of clock "ticks" is present as is the blinking >"heartbeat". Make sure to try [EDIT] [SET SERIAL PORT] and select the proper COM# port, then try [SEARCH] and/or [GARMIN] Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:39:35 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id BAA11436; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914031313.006963f8@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:644] Re: Garmin vs. Motorola, Computerless operation X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970907121530.2b07262a@best.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 14:21 09/07/97 -0500, Gordon Uber wrote: >A friend, Paul Hopkins, is trying to decide between the Garmin >and Motorola GPS engines from TAPR. He wants a 1 PPS timebase >precise to better than 100 microseconds for timing high-accuracy >mechanical pendulum clocks. > >1. Which of the two choices provides more reliable operation? Hi Gordon -- it's been a while since we corresponded. Lack of time has diminshed my presence on sci.geo.satellite.nav. Sorry to be slow in answering. My travel schedule this summer has been horrendous; I've been out of the country more than half the time since May with trips to UK, Italy, China, Alaska & Brazil. On the Garmin GPS-20 vs ONCORE question -- either gives the 100 usec accuracy with no problem. The GPS-20 is rather balky in locking up and I would not recommend it for anyone who needs high reliability. The ONCORE is a MUCH!! more robust receiver. With the GPS-20 there is the annoyance that the user needs to make a very annoying 5-wire cable for the receiver which has driven some to distraction. The ONCORE simply plugs into my TAC-2 circuit board. The software we have to support the receivers (my old SHOWTIME and Rick's new TAC32) is taylored to the ONCORE. The GPS-20 apparently works OK, but you have a lot less flexibility. So I summarize -- for a high quality application, use the ONCORE and pay the extra ~$100. If you want a "tekkie toy", the Garmin is neat. >2. Can he set up and use both of these without Showtime and >without a computer if he only needs the 1 PPS? SHOWTIME/TAC32 are needed only for setup and display. When I built my original TACs, some folks said "this isn't a clock -- it doesn't display the time". So rather than building a hardware display, I wrote SHOWTIME to turn your PC into a digital clock. But as long as power and antenna are connected, the 1PPS signals come out independent of the computer. >3. Should he use one of these directly without the TAC-2 kit? I did the TAC-2 as a lab-quality way to accommodate any of several timing receivers with a standardized interface. The ONCORE requires some RS232 drivers, you need a regulated power supply and you may want to buffer the hardware 1PPS signals -- which is what the TAC-2 does. TAPR (thru Doug McKinney) has a cheaper ONCORE interface board, as well as a cheaper GPS-20 interface board that will probably be adequate. In addition, a do-it- yourselfer can easily make a TAC clone with documentation on my aleph FTP site at URL: ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/emulate.txt (and the file emulate.zip has postscript schematics to supplement the text info). >Please send your replies to me or the list, since he has no Internet >connection. > >Thanks. > >Gordon > >-- >| XII | Gordon T. Uber, 3790 El Camino Real, Suite 142 >| XI | Palo Alto, CA 94306-3314, email: gordon@ubr.com >| X \ /| CLOCKS and TIME: http://www.ubr.com/clocks/ >| IX \ / | Reynen & Uber WebDesign: http://www.ubr.com/rey&ubr It's been a while since I surfed your "clocks" web site. I see that the reference you have for the TAC points to the SETI league. You might update it to point to http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/tac2.html and weave in a couple of other references to what we are doing. Regards, Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:39:37 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id BAA11560; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914031837.00688a00@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:645] Re: Antenna location for fixed TAC system? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <199709072351.TAA03228@meow.febo.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 18:34 09/07/97 -0500, John, N8UR (surprised to see the new call!) wrote: >How much of the sky does the antenna need to see for reliable TAC use? > >I'm debating whether it's worth the effort (and increased feedline loss) to >mount the GPS antenna up on my tower above the roofline, where it will have a >clear shot for 180 degrees (west through north to east), and a shot through >trees for the other 180 degrees. Alternatively, I can just stick the antenna >out the basement window, where it will see pretty well from north through >east, and then through trees (below 45 degree elevation, anyway) from east >through south. For timing, it is the high elevation satellites that are most important. In terms of what part of the sky to see, remember that the GPS satellites are in 55 degree inclination orbits. At mid northerly latitudes, this means that there is a "hole" with no satellites in it to your north. If you have to accept plackage, try putting your antenna so that obstructions are north +/- 60 degrees of azimuth or so. 73, Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:39:39 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id BAA11567; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914033537.00688a00@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:646] Low-Cost GPS antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) This week I spent some time working on a foolproof do-it-yourself low-cost GPS antenna. I'll have it to show at the TAPR/ARRL DCC in October in Baltimore. The antenna is a 2-turn helix. The helix is wound on a disposable Yoplait Yoghurt cup (picked up free during breakfast on a NorthWest Airlines flight), using adhesive-backed copper-foil tape. The helix feeds a MiniCircuits ERA-3 MMIC amplifier (cost < $2). The MMIC's input coupling capacitor is integrated into the antenna matching section. The simple matching section (copper foil tape + scotch tape) achieves > -20 dB return loss matching to 50 ohms. All these parts mount on a ~3" diameter piece of unetched circuit board. The only other components are one resistor and an SMA connector. I recon the total parts price to be < $5. I can put one together in 1-2 hours needing only a soldering iron, some super-glue and RTV (now that I've figured out the dimensions). The great thing about a helix is that it is a broad-band antenna and hence dimensions are not at all critical. The antenna has about a 60 degree field of view, lacking a bit of sensitivity at low elevation angles. Hooking it up to a Garmin GPSII+, it significantly outperforms the Garmin's normal antenna (the "S-meter" bars on the LCD are pinned for some satellites) even when fed thru 50' of coax. If there is interest, I'll try to pull together some sketches to be available at the DCC. I'd post some photos, but unfortunately my digital camera was stolen (along with my laptop) during a recent trip to Brazil. The hard-to-get part is the MiniCircuits ERA-3 MMIC amplifier since MiniCircuits has a $50 minimum order. If I hear of significant interest, I'll order a batch and have them for sale. 73 de Tom, W3IWI From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:40:06 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id GAA27717; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:35:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:35:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709141131.EAA23113@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Bill Broadley To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:647] Oncore GPS PPS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text Hello all, I'm trying to get Linux to use the PPS (pulse per second) to trip the clock via the DCD pin. Anyone know the characteristic of the PPS signal when it's NOT in position hold mode? In position hold mode I believe it's +/- 50 ns onset, and +/- 1 ms decay. I'm getting about a 500 us jitter which seems kinda excessive. I'm hoping that setting position hold is the problem, and not a software problem with the linux PPS kernel handling. Anyone know if it's possible to put the Oncore VP into position hold mode from NMEA mode? How about the argument for the Motorola binary mode. It's @@At something is 0 turn it off, and 1 turns it on? P.S. Yes I ordered the full Oncore VP manual, not here yet though. -- Bill Broadley Bill@math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://math.ucdavis.edu/~bill PGP-ok From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:40:12 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA08667; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:08:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:08:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <341BEE91.BC98E6A@erols.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Allen Schaeffer To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:648] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) Hi Tom, Just wanted you and Rick to know that the time display in TAC32 using the Garmin 20 remains "frozen" (displays the time of startup of the program). This occurs if PC is checked under display and there is no display of time at all if UTC is checked. Under EDIT the correct Com port and receiver type is checked. After reading your description of development of Showtime, I wonder whether TAC32 is deriving the date/time info from $GPZDA instead of $GPRMC message? -Allen (WA3ZYM) Tom Clark (W3IWI) wrote: > At 21:25 09/13/97 -0500, WA3ZYM wrote: > >Rick: > > > >Sorry for the late reply - I've been on vacation & had no net access. I have > >downloaded TAC32 1.0.8 and have tried it for a few minutes. The time display > >is still not updated beyond the initial time at startup. All other time > >displays are blank. The sound of clock "ticks" is present as is the blinking > >"heartbeat". > > Make sure to try [EDIT] [SET SERIAL PORT] and select the proper COM# port, > then try [SEARCH] and/or [GARMIN] > > Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:40:13 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA09336; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCC0F7.483DDC40.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:649] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Allen, This probably means I am not sending the Garmin the correct startup instructions. That's because I don't have one so I have been guessing based on what I think Showtime is doing. I'll look into it. Thanks for the feedback. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Allen Schaeffer [SMTP:ascha@erols.com] Sent: Sunday, September 14, 1997 10:08 AM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:648] RE: TAC32 - Hi Tom, Just wanted you and Rick to know that the time display in TAC32 using the Garmin 20 remains "frozen" (displays the time of startup of the program). This occurs if PC is checked under display and there is no display of time at all if UTC is checked. Under EDIT the correct Com port and receiver type is checked. After reading your description of development of Showtime, I wonder whether TAC32 is deriving the date/time info from $GPZDA instead of $GPRMC message? -Allen (WA3ZYM) Tom Clark (W3IWI) wrote: > At 21:25 09/13/97 -0500, WA3ZYM wrote: > >Rick: > > > >Sorry for the late reply - I've been on vacation & had no net access. I have > >downloaded TAC32 1.0.8 and have tried it for a few minutes. The time display > >is still not updated beyond the initial time at startup. All other time > >displays are blank. The sound of clock "ticks" is present as is the blinking > >"heartbeat". > > Make sure to try [EDIT] [SET SERIAL PORT] and select the proper COM# port, > then try [SEARCH] and/or [GARMIN] > > Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:40:27 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA29932; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:39:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:39:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Dave Martindale To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:650] Re: Low-Cost GPS antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970914033537.00688a00@tomcat> >The antenna is a 2-turn helix. The helix is wound on a disposable >Yoplait Yoghurt cup (picked up free during breakfast on a NorthWest >Airlines flight), using adhesive-backed copper-foil tape. The helix >feeds a MiniCircuits ERA-3 MMIC amplifier (cost < $2). The MMIC's >input coupling capacitor is integrated into the antenna matching >section. The simple matching section (copper foil tape + scotch tape) >achieves > -20 dB return loss matching to 50 ohms. That's great. Another material you might want to consider for the helix "bobbin" is 2 inch ABS plastic drain pipe. The outer diameter is 60.5 mm, making the circumference almost exactly 1 GPS wavelength. And its's slightly sturdier than the yoghurt cup. Have you tried a 2-turn helix without the MMIC amplifier? It might work OK if the cable between antenna and GPS is kept very short (a few feet). That would be adequate for some uses. I once built an 8-turn passive helix for GPS, based on plans on someone's web page. It had plenty of gain in the forward direction, but overall was a terrible GPS antenna because of its narrow beamwidth. A 2-turn helix wouldn't have that problem, yet might still have enough gain for use without amplifier. I never got around to trying it. I am interested in the design of your 50 ohm matching section as well. I used the standard "feed at the circumference, gradually reduce the slope of the final half-turn" technique, but have no test equipment to check how well it worked. Dave From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 19:40:32 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA06915; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914165517.0069b04c@cyberia.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Charles E. Heisler K3VDB" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:651] Re: Low-Cost GPS antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970914033537.00688a00@tomcat> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) At 01:03 AM 9/14/97 -0500, W3IWI wrote: +++++++++SNIP+++++++++++++ >If there is interest, I'll try to pull together some sketches to be >available at the DCC. I'd post some photos, but unfortunately my digital >camera was stolen (along with my laptop) during a recent trip to Brazil. > >The hard-to-get part is the MiniCircuits ERA-3 MMIC amplifier since >MiniCircuits has a $50 minimum order. If I hear of significant interest, >I'll order a batch and have them for sale. > >73 de Tom, W3IWI ----------------------------------- Please do Tom. Charlie K3VDB > > From ???@??? Mon Sep 15 10:26:48 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA09722; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:10:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:10:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970915030518.00690cc4@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:652] Re: Oncore GPS PPS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <199709141131.EAA23113@proto.math.ucdavis.edu> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 06:35 09/14/97 -0500, Bill Broadley wrote: > >Hello all, > I'm trying to get Linux to use the PPS (pulse per second) to >trip the clock via the DCD pin. > > Anyone know the characteristic of the PPS signal when it's >NOT in position hold mode? In position hold mode I believe it's +/- 50 ns >onset, and +/- 1 ms decay. The characteristics of the ONCORE 1PPS signal are that the pulse is 0.2 seconds wide (i.e. a 20% duty cycle pulse train), independent of mode. The "bare" oncore has rise/fall times of a few tens nsec, and with my TAC-2 board, the 74AC04 1PPS output buffers have rise/fall times of ~2 nsec. The 200 msec pulse width is 200 msec +/- 50 nsec. This sounds NOTHING like what you are reporting. Are you sure that you have a ground connection to the point you are measuring? > I'm getting about a 500 us jitter which seems kinda excessive. >I'm hoping that setting position hold is the problem, and not a software >problem with the linux PPS kernel handling. The ONCORE has never shown any more than +/- 200 nsec jitter. When in the position determining mode, the pulse timing can be trusted to be at worst a few hundred nsec from UTC. In the "zero-D" Position Hold mode, the worst case you will ever see on any isolated pulse is in the +/- 100 nsec range. There is an inherent "sawtooth" with a few second periodicity with a peak-to-peak amplitude of 104 nsec but with a zero-mean offset. To see the timing performance, please look at the .gif illustrations on my aleph FTP site at URL ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock/ The short-term stability (including the 104 nsec sawtooth & intentional power outages) are illustrated in tac-1sec.gif The effect of going from 3-D position determination to "zero-D" position hold mode is seen in oso-d270.gif, which is followed by 6 weeks of uninterrupted "zero-D" operation in oso-clk.gif [note that there are axis labelling errors on these plots -- the units are NANOSECONDS, not microseconds. I never got arount to correcting the plots -- sorry] My setup "Quickstart Guide" that virtually guarantees faultless performance is in the file success.tac > Anyone know if it's possible to put the Oncore VP into position >hold mode from NMEA mode? How about the argument for the Motorola binary >mode. It's @@At something is 0 turn it off, and 1 turns it on? No, position hold is ONLY invoked from the 9600 baud binary mode. Tom From ???@??? Mon Sep 15 10:26:51 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA10037; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:17:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:17:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970915031124.0069348c@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:653] RE: TAC32 - X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <341BEE91.BC98E6A@erols.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 09:08 09/14/97 -0500, Allen (WA3ZYM) wrote: >Hi Tom, > >Just wanted you and Rick to know that the time display in TAC32 using the Garmin >20 remains "frozen" (displays the time of startup of the program). This occurs if >PC is checked under display and there is no display of time at all if UTC is >checked. Under EDIT the correct Com port and receiver type is checked. After >reading your description of development of Showtime, I wonder whether TAC32 is >deriving the date/time info from $GPZDA instead of $GPRMC message? In SHOWTIME (and I believe in TAC32) the ZDA message is used if it is present, and RMC only if all else fails. The main reason for this is that ZDA is defined as the CURRENT UTC TIME while RMC/GGA report the time of the last valid position fix. For the ONCORE, where the preferred operating mode is "zero-D" "Position Hold", the GGA/RMC messages report the time when you last did a position fix, which may be weeks or months ago! ZDA, if present, is always the NMEA message to use for timing purposes. Also, the Date field in ZDA is neat and in logical YYMMDD order, while RMC is "ugly" with a DDMMYY format. 73, Tom From ???@??? Mon Sep 15 10:26:55 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id XAA11602; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:38:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:38:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970915032544.0068e73c@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:654] Re: Low-Cost GPS antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970914033537.00688a00@tomcat> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Incredible! In only 24 hours, my note on the helix antenna brought 25+ responses. It won't be possible to reply to everyone. As soon as I have some notes together on the construction, I'll post them here. If/When I get a stock of MiniCircuits ERA-3 MMICs, I'll post that news. To those who asked about "why 2 turns?": Longer helices (someone reported on trying an 8-turn GPS helix) have more gain and hence more directivity. For GPS applications, you want all-sky coverage. 2 turns yields a beamwidth of around +/- 60 degrees, equivalent to a one wavelength by one wavelength sized aperture. My experience has been that an integral number of turns yields the best circular polarization performance. The normal feedpoint impedance of a helix is ~140 ohms and matching usually involves a "launcher" with the first 1/4 turn closer to the ground-plane. My approach was to achieve this by using "fat" conductors. The copper-foil tape I use is about 0.3" wide. FYI -- the input coupling capacitor on the MMIC LNA is made by putting scotch tape over ~1.5" of the antenna helix, and then putting another piece of copper foil on top. In addition to providing DC isolation for the MMIC, this makes a hi-pass filter on the input of the MMIC, minimizing the RFI susceptability. 73, Tom From ???@??? Wed Sep 17 09:43:52 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA12815; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:38:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:38:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <341FEA85.6F3@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:655] ERA-3 MMIC amplifiers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) This note is in response to all those of you who wrote me about needing a source for MiniCircuits ERA-3 MMIC low-noise amplifiers. (1) The ERA-3 specifications can be gleaned from MiniCircuits online catalog at > http://www.minicircuits.com Basically, the ERA-3 is spec'd to work to > 3 GHz. At the 1575 MHz GPS frequency, it has a gain ~21 dB and an in-circuit noise figure in the 3-4 dB range. MiniCircuits shows the qty=30 price as $1.67 and in this quantity, you just make their $50 minimum order. They will take VISA/MC plastic money -- call 718-934-4500. (2) ERA-3's in small quantity are available from Down East Microwave. Use your web browser to point to > http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/Catalog.htm and do a search on ERA-3, where you will find this entry: > ERA-3 DC-8GHz,14dB Gain @ 6GHz,4.5dB Noise Figure, > +13dBm @ 1dB Gain compression 4/$10.00 Down East will also accept plastic money. They are good guys and are responsible members of the amateur community. (3) Because so many of you made the strong plea, I went ahead and placed a personal order for qty=100 units, which should be in my hands in a couple of days (from qty=30 to qty=100, the price break is about equal to their shipping cost). I will have them available for your convenience at next month's Baltimore DCC for $2.00 each (yes, I'm making a few pennies on each unit to cover my hassles!). As long as my stock holds out, I'll also provide them at the same $2 price to folks not attending the DCC by mail, providing: a. You send me an SASE (I'd don't want the hassle of addressing packages, and at this price, I can't afford to pay your postage!). You should allocate 2 oz. of postage, and a fairly sturdy envelope is recommended (padded envelope, floppy disk mailer, etc.). b. Cash only -- no plastic, no checks (again, I want to minimize the hassle factor). c. No phone calls, PLEASE!!! If you want to send me your SASE now, my mailing address (OK in any callbook) is: Tom Clark, W3IWI 6388 Guilford Road Clarksville, MD 21029 73, Tom From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 06:17:50 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id GAA08703; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 06:07:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 06:07:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709191122.HAA23299@meow.febo.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: John Ackermann N8UR To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:656] SHOWTIME Error Message??? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 I'm having a problem getting my ONCORE receiver and SHOWTIME to talk to each other. I can use the Motorola program to communicate with the receiver -- commands seem to work, and the display shows that I'm tracking a bunch of satellites. But when I try to run Showtime (either version 3.32 or 3.31) the following happens: 1. I get the oscilloscope heartbeat with several beeps. 2. Showtime displays "Init @4800 @9600" twice 3. Showtime exits with the error: Device I/O error in line 0 of module SHWTM331 at address 0C60:066E (that's when I use version 3.31; the address shown is is slightly different for version 3.32). I've tried two different computers, several serial cables, and two different com ports on one of the machines. I've tried running in a Win95 DOS window, in Win95 MS-DOS mode, and under DOS 6.22. Help!!! John - --VAA20455.874632567/meow.febo.com-- ------- End of Forwarded Message From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 13:17:25 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA11322; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:11:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:11:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <9708198747.AA874703329@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Eric Rosenberg" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:657] 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio 1. What antenna connector is required to make an opened up GPS30PC become a GPS-20? or... Am I better off wiring a piece of coax from the GPS30PC board to a connector on my box? 2. I understand that the GPS20 from TAPR has a built-in battery (for backup) that the GPS30PC in it's original configuration does not have. What type of battery do I need (and how do I install it) to make the GPS30 look like a TAPR GPS20? 3. Which Power Trends power supply module is the proper one for the TAC-2...horizontal or vertical or no tab? 4. Are the additional parts required for the above device included in the TAC-2 kit? Thanks in advance, Eric W3DQ -- erosenberg@orbcomm.net w3dq@amsat.org From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 14:16:10 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA13556; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:58:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:58:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3422CAB2.CD64AFC3@amsat.org> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Ronald G. Parsons" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:658] Re: 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC) 1. The GPS30PC has a small patch antenna on top of the shield around the "GPS20" board. There is no connector on the GPS30PC board. Put whatever connector you wish, or attach a coax to the board. 2. I haven't used the can opener on the GPS30PC board yet, but it does remember things like time and ephemeris, so I assume there's a battery in there somewhere. Ron Eric Rosenberg wrote: > > 1. What antenna connector is required to make an opened up GPS30PC > become a GPS-20? or... > > Am I better off wiring a piece of coax from the GPS30PC board to > a connector on my box? > > 2. I understand that the GPS20 from TAPR has a built-in battery (for > backup) that the GPS30PC in it's original configuration does not have. > > What type of battery do I need (and how do I install it) to make the > GPS30 look like a TAPR GPS20? > > 3. Which Power Trends power supply module is the proper one for the > TAC-2...horizontal or vertical or no tab? > > 4. Are the additional parts required for the above device included in > the TAC-2 kit? > > Thanks in advance, > > Eric W3DQ > -- > > erosenberg@orbcomm.net > w3dq@amsat.org > -- Ron W5RKN also: rparsons@bga.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 15:01:01 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id OAA15956; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <37567@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Clark -- W3IWI) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:659] Re: 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Erik asked > 3. Which Power Trends power supply module is the proper one for the > TAC-2...horizontal or vertical or no tab? Let me say it again -- The TAC-2 board will accommodate ANY of the 3-terminal Power Trends regulators. There are two sets of holes above U6. One set matches the "tab" version. The 2nd set matches the 1.5 amp solder-down type. If you get the type with no mounting tab, then I suggest the use of a dollop of epoxy or RTV at the hole that normally mounts the 7805. The horizontal vs vertical units are identical except that they bend the pins on the horizontal units and you have to bend the pins on the vertical units. You can get the data sheets (and even order a free sample!) from their web site: http://www.powertrends.com The relevant types are the PT5101x where x=N,A,S,H for the 5v parts. Although it really doesn't make a difference, I'd recommend H (Horizontal, with tab). The other nice version is the 78SR1 53 H -- this is the solder-down version (using the two smaller holes above U6) which can handle 1.5 amps. The "53" means it is trimmed to 5.25 volts, which, when combined with the ohmic drop thru RFC2 is just perfect! But DigiKey doesn't have the 78SR series and they do have the PT5101's Tom From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 15:30:58 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA16810; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3422DB5F.1FAF@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:660] Re: 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Eric Rosenberg also asked: > 4. Are the additional parts required for the above device included in > the TAC-2 kit? The default parts supplied with the TAC-2 kit are for a lossy 7805 regulator. Using the Power Trends you will require: - 2 @ 4-40 screws/nuts to bolt it down if it has the mounting tab or - epoxy or RTV if it doesn't have a tab and - 100 or 220 uf electrolytic (required) and - 6.2 volt zener protection diode (recommended) The cap and diode go in well marked locations on the PCB and are called out explicitly on the schematics. I supplied 220 uf caps to TAPR to be included in the kits, but apparently they didn't get into the parts bags. I had about 400, sent them about 300. If you need the part, and it isn't in the kit, and if TAPR can't find the bag I sent them, then I can probably supply a few of the capacitors. Tom From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 15:30:59 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA17137; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:18:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:18:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3422DCF9.23F3@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:661] Re: 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Eric Rosenberg also asked: > 2. I understand that the GPS20 from TAPR has a built-in battery (for > backup) that the GPS30PC in it's original configuration does not have. Can someone who has opened up the GPS-30 say with certainty if or if not there is a battery on the rcvr circuit board? I'd like to put this to rest once & for all. > What type of battery do I need (and how do I install it) to make the > GPS30 look like a TAPR GPS20? The BBRAM voltage requirements for the GPS-20 are 3.6 volts. The TAC-2 PCB has provisions for adding a battery if one is required (which is the case with the many of the ONCOREs). As described in the TAC-2 documentation, the easiest 3.6v battery to use is the NiCd replacement battery used in cordless telephones, already equipped with a 2-pin connector that mates JP11. Such batteries are seen at nearly every flea market, or can be purchased from Radio Shack or DigiKey (parts numbers are in the TAC-2 documentation). That batteries I use on my ONCOREs were NiCd that were obtained in the Mendelson tent at Dayton for $1 each. The Radio Shack batteries are $9.95. Tom From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 17:15:33 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA21691; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3422F5A3.5C69690B@amsat.org> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Ronald G. Parsons" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:662] Re: 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC) I opened up a GPS30PC enough to get a good view of the area inside corresponding to the battery location on a GPS 20 and, YES Virginia, there IS a battery on the GPS30PC board. This agrees with my post earlier today saying parameters do survive a power-off. Ron Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI) wrote: > > Eric Rosenberg also asked: > > > 2. I understand that the GPS20 from TAPR has a built-in battery (for > > backup) that the GPS30PC in it's original configuration does not have. > > Can someone who has opened up the GPS-30 say with certainty if or > if not there is a battery on the rcvr circuit board? I'd like to > put this to rest once & for all. > > > What type of battery do I need (and how do I install it) to make the > > GPS30 look like a TAPR GPS20? > > The BBRAM voltage requirements for the GPS-20 are 3.6 volts. The > TAC-2 PCB has provisions for adding a battery if one is required > (which is the case with the many of the ONCOREs). As described in > the TAC-2 documentation, the easiest 3.6v battery to use is the > NiCd replacement battery used in cordless telephones, already > equipped with a 2-pin connector that mates JP11. Such batteries > are seen at nearly every flea market, or can be purchased from > Radio Shack or DigiKey (parts numbers are in the TAC-2 documentation). > That batteries I use on my ONCOREs were NiCd that were obtained in > the Mendelson tent at Dayton for $1 each. The Radio Shack batteries > are $9.95. > > Tom -- Ron W5RKN also: rparsons@bga.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 17:53:06 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA24222; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:36:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:36:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709192226.PAA04669@bighorn.accessnv.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Robert H. Ashley" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:663] Showtime Error msg X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PROCOMM PLUS 3.0 for Windows John Ackermann N8UR One possible reason for your error message - an open connection on the DCD line within the RS232 connector where it connects to the TAC-2 board. This is pin #1 of P1 on the TAC-2 board. I had a similar problem, but a different address in the error message. I am using version 3.34. The problem was that the small points in the connector body that are supposed to pierce the insulation of the ribbon cable and make contact with the inner wire were not making contact. I had an open connection. I had to cut the connector off the ribbon cable and install a new one. After that everything worked fine. The Motorola program doesn't use the DCD signal so it is not affected by the broken connection. Showtime will not run without the DCD signal. Make sure the computer is getting the DCD 1pps signal. Good luck, Bob, KD7B From ???@??? Fri Sep 19 17:53:07 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA25173; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:48:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:48:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709192258.SAA26288@meow.febo.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: John Ackermann N8UR To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:664] Re: Showtime Error msg X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 Thanks for the idea, Bob. I ended up building a new Oncore-to-RS-232 cable (not using the TAC at the moment) and that seems to have cured the problem -- there was no visible line break, but one of the connections must have been flaky. 73, John ---- > One possible reason for your error message - an open connection > on the DCD line within the RS232 connector where it connects to > the TAC-2 board. This is pin #1 of P1 on the TAC-2 board. > > I had a similar problem, but a different address in the error > message. > I am using version 3.34. > > The problem was that the small points in the connector body that are > supposed to pierce the insulation of the ribbon cable and make > contact > with the inner wire were not making contact. I had an open > connection. > I had to cut the connector off the ribbon cable and install a new > one. > > After that everything worked fine. > > The Motorola program doesn't use the DCD signal so it is not affected > by the broken connection. > > Showtime will not run without the DCD signal. > Make sure the computer is getting the DCD 1pps signal. > > Good luck, > > Bob, KD7B From ???@??? Sat Sep 20 13:31:44 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA00609; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:18:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:18:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970920104938.00cce090@pop.azstarnet.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Lyle Johnson To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:665] Another GPS!? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <9708198747.AA874703329@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) I was at ION-97 through yesterday evening. A couple interesting products. 1) Asthech announced the G8. This is an 8-channel parallel unit with pretty high performance. It has no special time features, but the price is (roll of drums) $98 in 100s. Might be a good thing for TAPR to pursue in lieu of the Garmin stuff? They claim time is +/- 1 uSec. I will be in Sunnyvale next week and will try and pry loose a couple of units... 2) Trimble had a pair of new products. ACE is the same size (apparently) as the old SV6 CM3 board. It is "a little larger and a little cheaper" than the SK8. Its timing specs are better than the SK8. We get SK8s for about $175 (in 1K qty) so I'm not sure what "a little cheaper" means and neither was Trimble... They claim the time is "+/- 95 nSec in overdetemrined clock mode" whatever that means :-) Thunderbolt is a "GPS Disciplined Clock for the Wireless Infrastructure." 1 PPS is UTC +/- 50 nSec. They have an elaborate graph of 10 MHz output accuracy from 1 to 500 seconds displaying the Allan Variance. GOes from 10^-9 at 1 second to better thatn 10^-10 at 10seconds and longer. Phase noise is -120 dBc/Hz at 10 Jz, -135 at 100 Hz and 1 kHz, -145 at 10 kHz and 100 kHz. Oh yes, price is $1500 in unit qty with "no options." A double-ovened crystal oscillator, etc., adds cost. They were a little vague, and the demoware was an empty box (the world's lightest GPS prcision clock). 3) There were other cheap GPS units, mostly based on the SiRF technology, which is aimed at automotive use. I got conflicting information on whether it had 1 PPS output. I did verify that their chipset/algorithms ignore all multipath problems as they are shooting for 60 meters accuracy at the present time. I don't pretend to know how that might or might not affect timing. 4) The timing session. Most reports not based on bazillion-dollar setups wre based on the VP Oncore. It seems to be the consensus that thi sis the best cheap timing engine. Cheers, Lyle From ???@??? Sat Sep 20 13:46:38 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA01772; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:38:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:38:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709201837.MAA04931@clemens.dwf.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Reg Clemens To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:666] Archive? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Is there an archive of back issues of the Digest of this list? Reg.Clemens reg@dwf.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 20 13:46:39 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA01934; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:45:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:45:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:667] Re: Another GPS!? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970920104938.00cce090@pop.azstarnet.com> >I was at ION-97 through yesterday evening. A couple interesting products. > >1) Asthech announced the G8. This is an 8-channel parallel unit with >pretty high performance. It has no special time features, but the price is >(roll of drums) $98 in 100s. Might be a good thing for TAPR to pursue in >lieu of the Garmin stuff? They claim time is +/- 1 uSec. I will be in >Sunnyvale next week and will try and pry loose a couple of units... We are fixing to switch over to the 12-channel parallel Garmin OEM unit in Octobter once I can get all the info from Garmin concerning TAPR pricing and info for the web page. Just shipped our last GPS-20s for a bit. I guess this is the semi-official announcement before it hits the web page and TAPR-BB in the next 2-3 weeks as well as the PSR. We completed an agreement with Garmin two weeks ago (to be announced in the next PSR ;-) to be able to order less than 100 and get 100 qty pricing! That should help all the experimenters in the amateur world. More in the next PSR. Everyone on the list -- don't forget that the 1997 ARRL and TAPR DCC is in October in Baltimore. Tom Clark and others will be there -- so good time to talk about TAC and the future of TOC for those interested. Pre-Reg was up to 80 people , so I figure that we see between 150 and 200 people at the conference. Should be a great one. http://www.tapr.org/dcc Cheers - Greg ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- "Before you become too entranced with gorgeous gadgets and mesmerizing video displays, let me remind you that information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and wisdom is not foresight. Each grows out of the other and we need them all." -Arthur C. Clarke From ???@??? Sat Sep 20 20:57:08 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA28626; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:54:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:54:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <9708208748.AA874817671@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Eric Rosenberg" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:668] Thanks X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Thanks to all who responded to my simple questions. Especially to W3IWI, who re-stated his answers re:Power Solutions power supplies in such a way that I now know which version to purchase in order to have it fit on my board! That specific information (i.e., which version, vertical or horizontal, with or without heat tabs) is missing from the docs, Tom, Likewise in re:the extra components. Everywhere else there is menton of RS part numbers, but again, the extra parts are not referenced...and no, the extra electrolytic didn't come in my kit. Now all I need is to get my GPS receiver! Eric W3DQ From ???@??? Sat Sep 20 20:57:07 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA28634; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:54:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:54:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <9708208748.AA874817673@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Eric Rosenberg" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:669] Thanks for Answers... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Thanks to all who responded to my simple questions. Especially to W3IWI, who re-stated his answers re:Power Trends power supplies in such a way that I now know which version to purchase in order to have it fit on my board! That specific information (i.e., which version, vertical or horizontal, with or without heat tabs) is missing from the docs, Tom, Likewise in re:the extra components (cap, zener, and choke that Tom doesn't mention). Everywhere else there is menton of RS part numbers, but again, the extra parts are not referenced...and no, the extra electrolytic didn't come in my kit. Now all I need is to get my GPS receiver! Eric W3DQ From ???@??? Sat Sep 20 21:32:21 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA29986; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:22:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:22:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:670] Re: Archive? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <199709201837.MAA04931@clemens.dwf.com> Yep. Since the list isn't doing some of the list currently, I do this one by hand. You can find them in: That is for Jul, Aug, and Sept currently. Cheers - Greg >Is there an archive of back issues of the Digest of this list? > > Reg.Clemens > reg@dwf.com ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- "Before you become too entranced with gorgeous gadgets and mesmerizing video displays, let me remind you that information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and wisdom is not foresight. Each grows out of the other and we need them all." -Arthur C. Clarke From ???@??? Sun Sep 21 21:10:09 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA12837; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:57:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:57:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970922005420.0068d8b4@tomcat> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:671] Re: Another GPS!? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970920104938.00cce090@pop.azstarnet.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) At 13:18 09/20/97 -0500, Lyle wrote: >I was at ION-97 through yesterday evening. A couple interesting products. > >1) Asthech announced the G8. This is an 8-channel parallel unit with >pretty high performance. It has no special time features, but the price is >(roll of drums) $98 in 100s. Might be a good thing for TAPR to pursue in >lieu of the Garmin stuff? They claim time is +/- 1 uSec. I will be in >Sunnyvale next week and will try and pry loose a couple of units... I have some dealings with Ashtech and they had indicated that its likely that I'll get a "beta" unit. Now that I know its released I'll bug them to make good on their promises! >2) Trimble had a pair of new products. > >ACE is the same size (apparently) as the old SV6 CM3 board. It is "a >little larger and a little cheaper" than the SK8. Its timing specs are >better than the SK8. We get SK8s for about $175 (in 1K qty) so I'm not >sure what "a little cheaper" means and neither was Trimble... They claim >the time is "+/- 95 nSec in overdetemrined clock mode" whatever that means :-) I presume "overdetermined clock" and those specs mean that they are finally doing what I've called "zero-D" >Thunderbolt is a "GPS Disciplined Clock for the Wireless Infrastructure." 1 >PPS is UTC +/- 50 nSec. They have an elaborate graph of 10 MHz output >accuracy from 1 to 500 seconds displaying the Allan Variance. GOes from >10^-9 at 1 second to better thatn 10^-10 at 10seconds and longer. Phase >noise is -120 dBc/Hz at 10 Jz, -135 at 100 Hz and 1 kHz, -145 at 10 kHz and >100 kHz. > >Oh yes, price is $1500 in unit qty with "no options." A double-ovened >crystal oscillator, etc., adds cost. They were a little vague, and the >demoware was an empty box (the world's lightest GPS prcision clock). Interesting -- that's about what I forecast for the TOC. >3) There were other cheap GPS units, mostly based on the SiRF technology, >which is aimed at automotive use. I got conflicting information on whether >it had 1 PPS output. I did verify that their chipset/algorithms ignore all >multipath problems as they are shooting for 60 meters accuracy at the >present time. I don't pretend to know how that might or might not affect >timing. Everybody & his brother is getting into the "commodity GPS" biz, it seems! >4) The timing session. Most reports not based on bazillion-dollar setups >wre based on the VP Oncore. It seems to be the consensus that thi sis the >best cheap timing engine. Was there any mention made of our adventures? Then Greg said: >We are fixing to switch over to the 12-channel parallel Garmin OEM unit in >Octobter once I can get all the info from Garmin concerning TAPR pricing >and info for the web page. Just shipped our last GPS-20s for a bit. I >guess this is the semi-official announcement before it hits the web page >and TAPR-BB in the next 2-3 weeks as well as the PSR. We completed an >agreement with Garmin two weeks ago (to be announced in the next PSR ;-) to >be able to order less than 100 and get 100 qty pricing! That should help >all the experimenters in the amateur world. More in the next PSR. I presume this is the GPS-25. The one report I've had on the timing is that the -25 (unlike the -20) does NOT have the wide 1PPS signal that I regard as a "TAC requirement". If this is true, then we will have to invoke the 555 timer on the TAC-2 for compatibility. If so, then somebody better get their hands on a -25 ASAP to figure out the jumpers and parts needed! 73, Tom From ???@??? Mon Sep 22 21:42:06 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA04569; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:40:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:40:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCC7A7.92E55460.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:672] TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Version 1.0.9 of TAC32 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. This version adds the Maidenhead Grid Square display and may correct the variation in latency when sound is turned on with a slow computer. This version does not correct the incompatibility with Garmin receivers. Anyone out there willing to loan me a Garmin for a couple of weeks so I can sort that problem out? Rick WB2TNL From ???@??? Mon Sep 22 22:11:47 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA05965; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:06:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:06:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970922195811.00735ff4@pop.azstarnet.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: Lyle Johnson To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:673] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <01BCC7A7.92E55460.rick@cnssys.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) At 09:40 PM 9/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >Version 1.0.9 of TAC32 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. >This version adds the Maidenhead Grid Square display and may correct the >variation in latency when sound is turned on with a slow computer. > >This version does not correct the incompatibility with Garmin receivers. > Anyone out there willing to loan me a Garmin for a couple of weeks so I >can sort that problem out? Rick, I have an unused Garmin engine that I bought from TAPR. You are welcome to borrow it, hook it up, etc. SHucks, I might even find out if it works this way! Which address should I send it to and do you have a preferred method of shipment? 73, Lyle From ???@??? Tue Sep 23 06:55:03 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id GAA22527; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 06:50:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 06:50:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCC7F5.05D6A800.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:674] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Lyle, Thank you very much. Ship to: Richard M. Hambly CNS Systems, Inc. 363 Hawick Court Severna Park, MD 21146-1409 (410) 987-7835 Ship by any means you wish. I will be out of the office Wed-Fri so US Mail or UPS would be fine. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Lyle Johnson [SMTP:lylej@azstarnet.com] Sent: Monday, September 22, 1997 11:07 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:673] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available At 09:40 PM 9/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >Version 1.0.9 of TAC32 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. >This version adds the Maidenhead Grid Square display and may correct the >variation in latency when sound is turned on with a slow computer. > >This version does not correct the incompatibility with Garmin receivers. > Anyone out there willing to loan me a Garmin for a couple of weeks so I >can sort that problem out? Rick, I have an unused Garmin engine that I bought from TAPR. You are welcome to borrow it, hook it up, etc. SHucks, I might even find out if it works this way! Which address should I send it to and do you have a preferred method of shipment? 73, Lyle From ???@??? Tue Sep 23 11:42:19 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id LAA06540; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:09:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:09:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709231602.JAA20721@mail.redshift.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 875031839.000 From: "Doug McKinney" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:675] Re: Another GPS!? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Status: U ---------- > From: Tom Clark (W3IWI) > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:671] Re: Another GPS!? > Date: Sunday, September 21, 1997 6:57 PM > .......................................... > > Then Greg said: > > >We are fixing to switch over to the 12-channel parallel Garmin OEM unit in > >Octobter once I can get all the info from Garmin concerning TAPR pricing > >and info for the web page. Just shipped our last GPS-20s for a bit. I > >guess this is the semi-official announcement before it hits the web page > >and TAPR-BB in the next 2-3 weeks as well as the PSR. We completed an > >agreement with Garmin two weeks ago (to be announced in the next PSR ;-) to > >be able to order less than 100 and get 100 qty pricing! That should help > >all the experimenters in the amateur world. More in the next PSR. > > I presume this is the GPS-25. The one report I've had on the timing is that > the -25 (unlike the -20) does NOT have the wide 1PPS signal that I regard > as a "TAC requirement". If this is true, then we will have to invoke the > 555 timer on the TAC-2 for compatibility. If so, then somebody better get > their hands on a -25 ASAP to figure out the jumpers and parts needed! > > 73, Tom > I have the GARMIN GP25 with the active antenna GA27A. The GP20 and GP25 have the same dimensions and mounting hole pattern. The pinouts are the same: pin1 txd2, pin2 rxd2, pin3 1pps, pin4 txd1, pin5 rxd1, pin6 reset, pin7 vaux, pin 8 ground, pin9 nc, pin10 vcc, pin11 nc and pin12 nmea. 1pps is a 1us high pulse at 1Hz with a 300ns rise and fall into a 250 impedance. The pulse is ~700mv into a 50 ohm load. The pulse function is turned off as a default and requires a software command to start the 1pps output. GARMIN is comming out with an up dated GP25 with 2 hardware changes and a third hardware change on the boards. The hardware changes are: GP25 LVS (Low Voltage (3.6-6v) RS232) this adds the 3.6-6v input range to the current GP25 (5v) therefore, lower power used at 3.6v) GP25 LVC (Low Voltage (3.6-6v) CMOS) this drops the RS232 and leaves CMOS TTL levels (LVS=220ma; LVC=140ma!) GP25 HVS (High Voltage (6-40v buck regualtor)RS232) this is planned, but requires a volume request to cause development 73 Doug From ???@??? Tue Sep 23 15:43:42 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA01774; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:38:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:38:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34282843.4AD7@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:676] Re: 3 Simple Questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Matthew Francey sent me this frightening report, which I'll answer in public. It follows the thread started by Erik named "3 Simple Questions": > >The other nice version is the 78SR1 53 H -- this is the solder-down version > >(using the two smaller holes above U6) which can handle 1.5 amps. The "53" > >means it is trimmed to 5.25 volts, which, when combined with the ohmic drop > >thru RFC2 is just perfect! But DigiKey doesn't have the 78SR series and they > >do have the PT5101's > > My printed copy of the TAC-2 assembly manual states that one power supply > option for the TAC-2 is the 78ST105ND (or similar). So I ordered one > from Digikey, soldered it and the related components into place and > powered up the TAC-2. > > Poof. > > I lost my GPS receiver [Oncore VP], probably the antenna, and likely > most of the active components on the board because of this mis-placed > trust in the printed doco. Subsequent testing revealed the power supply > was putting out 10.5V ... dumb dumb dumb! This is what happens > when you try to jump ahead of checklists. Never. Ever. Again. > > If you can check the current manual, and confirm that part number is in > error, it probably should be fixed *pronto* and a small announcement to > the effect made in the mailing list. First, let me apologize for not having reviewed the final documentation that was sent with the TAC-2 kits -- much of my summer was spent out of the country and out of touch. I didn't have a set of the "final" documentation that was sent with the kits, so I fetched a set from www.tapr.org today so we would all be dealing from the same deck of cards. The references to the Power Trends (PT) regulators first appear on page 9, noting "Section 8.5" -- the sections were numbered in the original documentation but I see that the PDF'd versions lost the section numbers. Anyway the reference points to Page 17. I went to both the DigiKey web site (http://www.digikey.com where catalog page 155 shows the PT 78ST105ND part as a 5.0 volt regulator, not as a 10.5 volt part as you seem to have gleaned. This is confirmed on PT's web site at URL http://www.powertrends.com where they show the part numbering in the format 78ST1 xx y C where xx=05 means 5.0 volts and y defines the package style. [for the case of the 78SR153HC part I recommended in my message, xx=53 means 5.25 volts. I suggested that the small quarter-volt overhead will insure that you have about 5.1v left after you take the loss "hit" by installing RFC2, but DigiKey doesn't show the 78SR153HC part in their catalog]. Therefore I conclude that your problem does not lie in the regulator as you surmised (unless PT happened to produce a really bogus unit. To my knowledge, their units are 100% tested and they have a very good reputation, so I think that this is a very unlikely case.). In gleaning the PT catalog, they do not have a 10.5 volt unit at all, the closest being xx=09 for 9v or xx=12 for 12v. In the notes, and in the schematic I noted that a 6.2 volt Zener Diode be placed at Z1 for safety. I'm curious if you used the zener? The most likely thing I can think of is that somehow you have the input shorted to the output on the circuit board and that the 10.5v you see is in fact the input supply voltage, minus the drop associated with D8 and RFC1 (which would about 0.8 volts or so). I'll be anxious to hear what you find -- I really don't see that the problem lies with the basic TAC-2 design or the PT regulator you ordered. 73, Tom From ???@??? Tue Sep 23 16:30:08 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA03481; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:12:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:12:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34282FC6.30DD@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:677] TAC-2 Schematics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) In pulling over the material to answer Matthew's question I found I needed to reconstruct a copy of the documentation that was sent with the TAC-2 kits. In doing so, I see that the schematic drawings that are in the .PDF files are not my latest version -- I spotted this because the drawing package I prepared for the kit had FIVE drawings, and the .PDF file has only FOUR. The missing fifth drawing is the one that documents all the "what does this jumper really do?" cases, interconnect cables, etc. Greg -- the "current" "correct" and "final" drawings in both PostScript and HP LaserJet formats in the private TAC2 area on ftp.tapr.org that we used for the kit development. It would be a good idea to move them to the general user ftp.tapr.org area. The two magic files are: ~/tac2/dwg2c-ps.zip and ~/tac2/dwg2c-lj.zip and they are dated 970506. ----------------------------------------------------------- For the other TAC-2 folks -- until the correct files get posted on ftp.tapr.org, you can pick them up on my aleph file server at URL ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/tac2/ where you will find two .zip files. In each .zip file you will find files named like tac2c-s# which corresponds to the final schematic sheets #1 thru #5. You have two choices: -ps is printable PostScript (which was tested/verified with GhostScript, although you may have to adjust the printer x & y offsets to make them fit on a page) and -lj which can be printed on any LaserJet 3 or later by simply copying the .prn files to LPT1: 73, Tom From ???@??? Wed Sep 24 13:16:33 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA07242; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:09:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:09:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <9708248751.AA875135256@smtp_link.orbcomm.net> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Eric Rosenberg" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:679] GPS-20 Manual? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Is there a technical or other manual for the GPS-20/35PC? If so, from where? Thanks, Eric W3DQ erosenberg@orbcomm.net From ???@??? Wed Sep 24 16:25:36 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA17405; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:23:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:23:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709242121.OAA12485@mail.redshift.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Doug McKinney" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:680] Re: GPS-20 Manual? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 ---------- > From: Eric Rosenberg > To: tacgps@tapr.org > Subject: [TACGPS:679] GPS-20 Manual? > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 11:09 AM > > Is there a technical or other manual for the GPS-20/35PC? > If so, from where? > > Thanks, > Eric W3DQ > erosenberg@orbcomm.net > GP30 is the GP20 with and in antenna (multitrac) GP35 is the GP25 with and in antenna (12 channel unit) Brad Wiseman of Garmin is the technical person to find out about the manual. his e-mail is brad.wiseman@garmin.com. Now you can tell me how to write the HTML code to make 'brad.wiseman.garmin.com' into that blue link used in IE! From ???@??? Wed Sep 24 16:25:37 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA17422; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:23:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:23:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <34298118.681FE671@amsat.org> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Ronald G. Parsons" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:681] Re: GPS-20 Manual? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC) One comes with each GPS 20 and I assume one will also come with the GPS30PC. Check with the TAPR office. Ron Eric Rosenberg wrote: > > Is there a technical or other manual for the GPS-20/35PC? > If so, from where? > > Thanks, > Eric W3DQ > erosenberg@orbcomm.net -- Ron W5RKN also: rparsons@bga.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 24 21:39:31 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA10815; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:29:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:29:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3429BD79.2646@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:682] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Richard M. Hambly wrote: > > Version 1.0.9 of TAC32 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. > This version adds the Maidenhead Grid Square display and may correct the > variation in latency when sound is turned on with a slow computer. > > This version does not correct the incompatibility with Garmin receivers. > Anyone out there willing to loan me a Garmin for a couple of weeks so I > can sort that problem out? > > Rick > WB2TNL Rick -- 1.0.9 lost part of the date field here -- month & year on the 2nd line. I see you included my "extended" Maidenhead calculation from SHOWTIME (the .75 part of FM19me.75). Tom From ???@??? Thu Sep 25 09:52:03 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA05502; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:37:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:37:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCC04E.B5264EE0.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly (\"Rick\")" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:683] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, Sorry about the date field. I have to make the little boxes big enough for the largest data to be housed in them. It's hard to know how big that has to be sometimes. I'm on travel in Ithaca, NY right now so I will fix this when I get back, probably Sunday. Yes, I saw that you had extended the grid square calculation and I promised that TAC32 would do everything that Showtime does, so in it went! I trust you are pleased. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Tom Clark (W3IWI) [SMTP:clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 10:29 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:682] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available Richard M. Hambly wrote: > > Version 1.0.9 of TAC32 is now available at http://www.cnssys.com/tac32. > This version adds the Maidenhead Grid Square display and may correct the > variation in latency when sound is turned on with a slow computer. > > This version does not correct the incompatibility with Garmin receivers. > Anyone out there willing to loan me a Garmin for a couple of weeks so I > can sort that problem out? > > Rick > WB2TNL Rick -- 1.0.9 lost part of the date field here -- month & year on the 2nd line. I see you included my "extended" Maidenhead calculation from SHOWTIME (the .75 part of FM19me.75). Tom From ???@??? Sat Sep 27 21:19:45 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA04369; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:50:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:50:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709272204.SAA00666@meow.febo.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: John Ackermann N8UR To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:684] "SA Watch" Software? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 I just downloaded a nifty shareware program called SA Watch. It takes the GPS output and plots each fix over a 200 meter radius so you can watch the signal move with SA. It also displays the position of each SV in the constellation, showing whether the bird is being tracked, and using little "contrails" so you can follow each SV and determine your view of the sky. But the neatest thing is that it maintains a "weighted mean lat/long" that appears to weight using the HDOP value. My question is -- has anyone else on the list compared SA Watch's weighted mean against the average position function in ShowTime? If so, which is the better tool to use for determining a position over a long (several day) averaging period? I'm trying to get my position fixed as accurately as possible so ShowTime has an accurate reference point for timekeeping. Thanks for any info... 73, John N8UR (ex-AG9V) jra@febo.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 28 20:10:26 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA17872; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:03:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:03:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709290120.VAA01252@meow.febo.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: John Ackermann N8UR To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:685] Re: "SA Watch" Software? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 > At 08:50 PM 9/27/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I just downloaded a nifty shareware program called SA Watch. > > > Hi John:........Can you give me the download address. I would > also like to do some comparing. > > Thanks, Charlie K3VDB I don't have the website URL handy, but the author can be reached at stan@mutadv.com. John From ???@??? Sun Sep 28 22:10:12 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA24229; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:08:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:08:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <38484@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:686] Re: "SA Watch" Software? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio In-Reply-To: your message of Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:50:24 -0500 (CDT). John -- SHOWTIME has had the ability to do a weighted average for some time. The averaging can be turned on/off with a switch, and the averaging parameters can be set. SHOWTIMEs algorithm also allows you to examine the repeatibility of multiply smootherd position averageds. (sorry -- I seem to be hitting the wrong key tonite, and backspace doesn't work in the Telnet I'm using right now). SHOWTIME uses HDOP as the weighting for the horizontal position, and VDOP to weight the heights. I went to a lot of work to justify the theoretical basis for the averaging algorithms I use in SHOWTIME asnd have done a lot of testing against really high accuracy clock. If you follow the proceedure I described in the file "success.tac", I can give you a 99-44/100% guarnetee that the timing will have an RMS accuracy, tracable all the way to the USNO's master clock, of better than 30 nsec. Tom From ???@??? Sun Sep 28 22:55:06 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA27103; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:43:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:43:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709290339.DAA13820@hydrogen> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: mdf@angoss.com (Matthew Francey) To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:687] Re: "SA Watch" Software? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio A while ago I had collected a couple hundred thousand positions from my Oncore VP, along with the various DOP's that the receiver provides. I was surprised to discover that weighting the average based on the DOP's wasn't much different than a boring unweighted average. Furthermore, when I plotted the error in position against the DOP I could discern no obvious tendency for the error to be large when the DOP was large. My theory (if I didn't screw up) is that SA dominates the error-in-position -- and since the DOP can't estimate the effects of SA, I visually observe no correlation. Perhaps careful analysis would reveal it? From ???@??? Tue Sep 30 16:16:59 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA09242; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:02:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:02:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:688] 1997 ARRL and TAPR DCC Reminder X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don't forget that the 16th Annual ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference is in just a few days! It is not to late to make the conference. Registration is already at a high and we expect a really great conference! Hope to see you in Baltimore. 1997 ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference October 10-12, 1997 Baltimore, Maryland (minutes from BWI airport) Main Web Page -- http://www.tapr.org/dcc Tentative Schedule -- http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/dcc97schedule.html Proceedings Abstracts -- http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/cnc16.html Local Attractions -- http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/dcc97_attractions.html ------------------------------ The 1997 ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference will be held on October 10-12, 1997 in Baltimore, Maryland. This years conference location is just minutes away from the BWI Airport. What can you expect during the 1997 ARRL and TAPR Digital Communications Conference ? * A full day of papers and breakouts on Saturday for the beginner to the advanced amateur digital enthusiast. * Three workshops o Friday (1pm - 8pm) - APRS Symposium (http://www.aprs.net/dcc/) o Friday (4pm - 8pm) - Seminar on RF Basics for Computer Weenies o Sunday (8:30am - 1:30pm) - Seminar on Spread Spectrum system Design and Theory * The second annual Student paper session. * A banquet with a Special Guest Speaker Yutaka Sakurai, JF1LZQ who is Vice President of Japan's Packet Radio User's Group (PRUG). His talk is entitled, "Japan's PRUG: A look at its history and a view to the future". He will discuss the history of the PRUG from its early beginnings in the mid-80's and track its development to today. He will also discuss some of PRUG's current projects and its goals for the future. * SIGs (Special Interest Groups) on Saturday following the banquet. * Informal get-togethers throughout the weekend. * TAPR Membership Meeting ------------------------------ Special Symposiums/Seminars In addition to the presentation of papers on Saturday, three symposiums/seminars will be held before and after the conference. These sessions are provided to allow those with additional time and interest to make the most of the Digital Communications Conference. For those that might have interest in just a symposium or seminar, registration for the conference is not necessary to register and attend one or more of the symposiums and seminars. This allows maximum flexibility for those that might want to participate during the Digital Communications Conference, but do not have an entire weekend to devote to the event. A full day symposium on Friday covering APRS will be conducted by Bob Bruninga, WB4APR (father of APRS) Keith Sproul, WU2Z, Mark Sproul, KB2ICI (developers of Mac and Windows APRS), Steve Dimse, K4HG (developer of javAPRS), and other nationally known APRS leaders. Join this group for the afternoon and evening for in depth discussions and presentations on the current and future status of APRS. This is an unique opportunity to gain insight into this fast growing digital aspect of amateur operations that combines computers, packet radio, and GPS (Global Positioning System). See http://www.aprs.net/dcc/ for schedule. Starting late Friday afternoon a half-day seminar entitled "RF Basics for Computer Weenies: Helping the RF-challenged get the most out of the new high-speed wireless toys" presented by Mike Cheponis, K3MC. The seminar will focus on such topic as basic antenna types and their characteristics, comparison of feedlines and connector types, propagation basics (calculation of path loss, multipath effects, fresnel zones, etc), weatherproofing, lightning protection, filters, basic RF measurements, and other issues related to maintaining radio equipment on the UHF/SHF bands. This seminar will be starting late enough in the afternoon on Friday to allow those flying on that day to attend the seminar. On Sunday morning, Dewayne Hendricks, WA8DZP, Phil Karn, KA9Q, and Tom McDermott, N5EG, will conduct a seminar focusing on "Spread Spectrum System Design and Theory." All three presenters are well known for their work in various areas of amateur digital communications and this 5 hour seminar should be an excellent opportunity to learn about the design and theory of spread spectrum systems. This seminar is a follow up to the past two seminars of PCS technology by Dewayne with a new focus on system design. ------------------------------ Airports * The closest airport is Balitmore/Washington International (BWI) * For those flying internationally or located on the East coast, check flights into o Dulles International or o Washington National Airport * Bus/rail service from either Dulles or Washington to BWI is available, but be sure to check on this before arriving. ------------------------------ Hotel Information Conference presentations, meetings, and workshops will be held at the Holiday Inn BWI Airport. DCC special rooms rates are $89 per night. When making reservations with the hotel, be sure to indicate you are attending the ARRL and TAPR DCC conference. The hotel provides transportation to and from BWI Airport, Amtrak/MARC rail station, and the local Baltimore Light Rail. You should contact the hotel to arrange transportation. Holiday Inn BWI Airport (conference hotel) 890 Elkridge Landing Rd, Linthicum, MD, 21090 (410) 859-8400, Fax (410) 684-6778 3912.00N and 07641.34W ------------------------------ Directions to Conference Coming from Baltimore Metro Area: Follow MD-295 SOUTH towards BWI airport Take W. NURSERY Rd exit LEFT at the list at the end of the exit RIGHT at the 3rd light, WINERSON Rd LEFT at the 1st light, ELKRIDGE LANDING Rd Holiday Inn BWI will be 1/2 mile on right. Coming from Annapolis: Follow I-97 NORTH/RT. 3 NORTH Take DORSEY Rd Exit (rt 176 West) RIGHT onto AVIATION Blvd (Rt 162) Pass BWI Satellite parking Follow signs to BWI Airport RIGHT onto ELKRIDGE LANDING Rd Holiday Inn BWI will be 1/2 mile on left. Coming from Washington, DC: Follow I-95 NORTH or MD-295 NORTH towards Baltimore Take I-195 EAST towards BWI airport Take EXIT 1A (Rt. 170 North) LEFT at 2nd light, ELKRIDGE LANDING Rd Holiday Inn BWI will be 1/2 mile on left. Coming from the North: Follow I-95 SOUTH or NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE SOUTH to I-95 South Take I-95 SOUTH to I-195 EAST/AIRPORT to Rt. 170 NORTH LINTHICUM to 2nd light, turn left onto ELKRIDGE LANDING Rd Holiday Inn BWI will be 1 mile on left. ------------------------------ Local Repeater Talk-In Maryland FM Association WA3DZD repeater network has given premission to use their system for the talk-in on Saturday morning, October 11, 1997 and for use during the conference weekend. The frequecies are: * 146.76 out, 146.16 in * 224.76 out, 223.16 in * 444.00 out, 449.00 in The talk-in station will be using the call sign W3NSA. Many thanks to the Maryland FM Association. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tucson Amateur Packet Radio 8987-309 E Tanque Verde Rd #337 * Tucson, Az * 85749-9399 * 940-383-0000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- e-mail: tapr@tapr.org ftp: ftp.tapr.org web: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Sep 30 18:31:40 1997 Received: from tapr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id SAA20965; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <01BCCDD6.7D58D380.rick@cnssys.com> Reply-To: tacgps@tapr.org Originator: tacgps@tapr.org Sender: tacgps@tapr.org Precedence: bulk From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:689] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Tom, I increased the date field window size. This should fix the problem. I have loaded the new release on http://www.cnssys.com/tac32 . This is still Version 1.09. There are no functional changes. For the expert ftp'er who has already installed tac32 from the Web site at least once, the three files in ftp://ftp.cnssys.com/pub/tac32 can de downloaded to replace the same three files in your installed directory (typically "C:\Program Files\CNS Systems\TAC32". This will save a lot of on-line time but is more prone to error. You don't get the DLLs or the system configuration check that you get with the automatic install from the Web site. Don't do it unless you are confident. Rick WB2TNL -----Original Message----- From: Tom Clark (W3IWI) [SMTP:clark@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 10:29 PM To: tacgps@tapr.org Subject: [TACGPS:682] Re: TAC32 Version 1.0.9 available Rick -- 1.0.9 lost part of the date field here -- month & year on the 2nd line. I see you included my "extended" Maidenhead calculation from SHOWTIME (the .75 part of FM19me.75). Tom